Have a little empathy for those whose jobs got crushed.

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Originally Posted by Archamgel

But that's only over the 24 and 30 sec full duration. My Whm easily trumps that with Aero 3 (AoE dot with no Dmg drop off coming to 300 potency total), then dropping Thin Air for the classic Holy spam (200 potency every 3secs, counting animation time, with a flat 100on 5th) gives about 1300 down to 800 within just the Thin Air time frame, and could do a few more after if I think everyone is safe. No Assize, Swift cast, or Clear Mind for that. Correct me if my math is wrong (probably is, since it is 9am and I worked from 5pm to 5am and I can't remember all the durations off the top of my head).

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Except that's the Thin Air frame, so once every two minutes, thus making it not standard AoE. Yes, you could still do the same stuff without Thin Air, but that'd be at the expense of a depleted MP bar and likely equally depleted HP bars of everyone in your party who would probably kick you because OMG YOU'RE A HEALER AND YOU HAD ONE JOB, whereas with Scholar, who can drop maybe a fifth (or less, I forget) of their MP on those dots, pop Bane (for no MP) and keep way more of that MP for that one job while their dots do the damage work for them.

Anyway, you do bring up a point though. White Mage does have a lot more now for damage tools, which is to offset for Scholar having fancier support stuff....or at least that's supposed to be the theory....

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

I would disagree. RDM has a group damage buff ,a heal ,and a raise.

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If your party has to rely on a RDM heal in order to win, then your party is dogshit. Rezzing shouldn't be an issue if people aren't dying. In a team of competent players, RDM has as much utility as a NIN or a DRG. Are they support DPS now, too?

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

If your party has to rely on a RDM heal in order to win, then your party is dogshit. Rezzing shouldn't be an issue if people aren't dying. In a team of competent players, RDM has as much utility as a NIN or a DRG. Are they support DPS now, too?

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Redmage utility is emergency utility with a little buffing of physical dps. And in bad situations the redmage can totally save the day just long enough for the healer/s to get back into the action. I have saved a couple wipes on the primal this way. Don't knock it.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

If your party has to rely on a RDM heal in order to win, then your party is dogshit. Rezzing shouldn't be an issue if people aren't dying. In a team of competent players, RDM has as much utility as a NIN or a DRG. Are they support DPS now, too?

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NIN and DRG have always been support dps, NIN such their 2.4 inception and DRG since 3.0 and Battle Litany. The only true DPS was MNK back then, which was considered tacitly inferior to taking more support dps. In fact, DRG became even more supportive in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

NIN and DRG have always been support dps, NIN such their 2.4 inception and DRG since 3.0 and Battle Litany. The only true DPS was MNK back then, which was considered tacitly inferior to taking more support dps. In fact, DRG became even more supportive in 4.0.

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yes because nerfing piercing dmg to 5% and literally nerfing our b4b by half and giving us an annoying tether that doesnt even give us our full dmg from b4b in HW makes us more supportive.

My PLD couldn't get a group in 3.0 because it was a PLD, where was my empathy?


Joking, I know it sucks, but dev fixes are coming, just be patient.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

If your party has to rely on a RDM heal in order to win, then your party is dogshit. Rezzing shouldn't be an issue if people aren't dying. In a team of competent players, RDM has as much utility as a NIN or a DRG. Are they support DPS now, too?

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Okaaayyy. There's no need to use mean words to describe lots of people. Though, it doesn't change anything; we can't have the game cater to only "competent players." And the answer to your question is a resounding yes! Of course Red Mages are support DPS to significant extent. Harder content benefits a great deal from having a Red Mage in there ^u^.

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Originally Posted by PondHollow

Okaaayyy. There's no need to use mean words to describe lots of people. Though, it doesn't change anything; we can't have the game cater to only "competent players." And the answer to your question is a resounding yes! Of course Red Mages are support DPS to significant extent. Harder content benefits a great deal from having a Red Mage in there ^u^.

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I'm not describing lots of people. I never once said a lot of people, or any other version of the term. Don't put words in my mouth.

In all the pick up groups I've joined to learn and clear the extremes, I learned a simple thing. If both healers died to mechanics, and it relied upon you healing people while rezzing them, it wasn't going to end in a clear. All I did was postpone the inevitable because the same 4-5 people I spent my whole bar on rezzing just die to the next set of mechanics. Learning it, it's whatever, that's part of it, they get to see the mechanics, but when going for a clear? That's a different story. Luckily those kinds of groups were exceedingly rare. People learned that if they want to advance, they have to complete mechanics. That is why I balk at the idea that RDM is a support DPS because they can heal.

Utilizing resurrection is situational, because again, if people are doing as they are supposed to, you never have to actually use it, and if some random guy dies, it's typically better for the healer to do it so you can continue maintaining your DPS. This only leaves Embolden as your only "support" ability that you only pop for your own benefit first and foremost, and if 1 ability(that is not a cross class skill) makes a class a support DPS, then that makes every DPS sans Samurai(unless you want to count the slashing debuff) a support DPS, at that point; which sounds stupid.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

This only leaves Embolden as your only "support" ability that you only pop for your own benefit first and foremost, and if 1 ability(that is not a cross class skill) makes a class a support DPS, then that makes every DPS sans Samurai(unless you want to count the slashing debuff) a support DPS, at that point; which sounds stupid.

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So you put yourself above your party in a team play situation? Do you play bard ,and fail to change songs because your deeps may lower too? The fact that RDM is effective in supporting a party's success does not mean it only ever has to focus on only support. Hence the term Support DPS.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

So you put yourself above your party in a team play situation? Do you play bard ,and fail to change songs because your deeps may lower too? The fact that RDM is effective in supporting a party's success does not mean it only ever has to focus on only support. Hence the term Support DPS.

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You pop Embolden to increase your damage before your big burst as RDM, yes. Sorry I don't cater my one cooldown to other peoples burst moments.