Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

Alrighty. I don't even know why THIS became the new horse to beat, but alright.

You're tanking. Alright. Tank stance. Don't play like a DPS, so use your aggro combo exclusively.
... Well, actually, what is "tanking"? well that seems easy to define. you have 2 major checkboxes to define the VERY CORE BASICS of tanking. 2 things.

1) Am I getting beat in the face harder than your- nevermind. forget that thought. You are? Alright. Cool. Let's move onto to the other checkmark.
2) Are you surviving the attention of your overly clingy ex despite the restraining order you filed last week? No? It's ok. Cooldowns are there for that! Good job. You used one!

Alright. POP QUIZ! The above has been established- what else do you do now? What do you think is BETTER? Which do you think is more SKILLED? Which do you think is actually PROPER?

Do you...
A) Continue using an ability that offers no further benefit, while still penalizing yourself and the group's current progress.
B) Ignore the other 2/3rds of the abilities given to you over the course of 40 levels because "it's not part of your job".
C) Actually recognize your job is being fulfilled already and use abilities you have access to for the benefit of your fellow players.
D) I PLAY HOW I WANT, YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB!!!1!!1

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Originally Posted by Dicejss

It makes it harder on the healer to keep your role confused self alive when you try to pull the whole dungeon or for those tank busters.

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It only really makes it harder if you don't know how to use your mitigation CDs. All VIT does is provide a larger leeway for error. VIT doesn't provide any mitigation whatsoever.

To be fair though, it does seem like some people (not just tanks) don't know what their role is.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...doing/djupjbz/

This post has gotten so out of control that any posts after page 11 will no longer be relevant because a lot of people don't seem to read/listen...

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

BINGO!


You won't get many agreeing with you, but I do.

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coz the ones who are happy how it is not gona come here and bother complaining :P

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

This post has gotten so out of control that any posts after page 11 will no longer be relevant because a lot of people don't seem to read/listen...

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That's because your original argument demonstrates a total lack of understanding for what the problems are that people are complaining about. If anything, you're the one who doesn't seem to be reading/listening.

I'm confused as to whats really being debated here..... First of all, what is the definition of "optimize your dps".....? Is it about staying the longest in dps stance while at the same time holding emnity? Or does staying in tank stance while holding emnity and doin your dps rotation also fall under that definition.....Nobody is really just staying in tank stance and only doing their emnity combo right? Nobody is saying/has said that?

And what content are we talking about here? There are(or at least should be) numerous factors that should dictate how you play as a tank.... Gauging your party's capabilities should be a skill all tanks should have(or at least strive to have)... Are you playing with your FC/static? are you playing with a random df/pf group? Are we talking about dungeons, or raid encounters....?

If I play with friends/FC then Im sure as h*** going to go alot more offensive, then if I'm playing with a random df group.. Also if I've done the instance a gazillion times, I'll probably stance dance more often, gear level also plays a part in this.... Is the group well geared, does the healers mana bar barely move, does mobs die fast or slow...

Some of you seem to be saying that if you stay in tank stance then you are doing it wrong, I'd just like to know what content you are talking about....

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Originally Posted by Evaddaragon

But people have to realize that STR/VIT will not come back. Yoshi-P stated himself, and I've known since 3.2 it was a temporary measure and it would get reverted in Stormblood. Why people forgot that, I do not know.

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People do realize that. We think it's a dumb change because that temporary system, while not perfect, still worked a lot better than what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Heleth

Or does staying in tank stance while holding emnity and doin your dps rotation also fall under that definition.....Nobody is really just staying in tank stance and only doing their emnity combo right? Nobody is saying/has said that?

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In a lot of ways they are, even if they don't know it. The only real thing this game brings to the table is changing stances mid battle. It's not that other games havn't done that it's just that most games lock you into your stance or just flat out don't have them and just have dps and agro skills(if even that, plenty of games just expect you to hold hate through damage). You have plenty of people trying to say tanks shouldn't dps, well if that's the case does that mean I shouldn't use anything that doesn't directly contribute enmity bonuses? If we acknowledge that goring blade, fell cleave, royal authority and such have a place in tanking then we acknowledge dps has a place in tanking.

You have these people saying "if I'm holding hate I'm doing my job" eh kind of. In many other games "holding hate" involves perfecting a rotation and maximizing dps while also hitting proper cooldowns. Basically FF14 allows tanks to be very very lazy and still hold hate. In many other games you wouldn't actually hold hate with the kind of lazy rotation and optimization these people suggest.

Lets be honest here optimizing means using the full kit, suggesting anything less is suggesting ignoring tools available. Obviously the player needs to react to the group and the encounter but consider we basically have:
dps says I don't want to use some of my abilities. Response: "wtf you suck, use everything you have"
tanks says tanks should use all their abilities: "wtf no, you should only use part of your kit or you're some damn dirty elitist."

So yeah it's not unreasonable to say people are suggesting you just stay in tank stance and spam your enmity combo considering it's insult worth to try to perform well for a party as a tank using your full kit.

PLD aggro gen is great in 60+ Flash and Total eclipse spam =) and the usual aggro builder for the solo trash mobs. Not had much issues and our levelling Samurai as been punch 26k Crits at that, never think I am DPS class when I am in a dungeon I there to solely tank unless the boss is at 1-3% and the dps have hit the dust due to not adjusting

What it boils down to for is that I am going to use every tool at my disposal to maximize my personal output and help the group as a whole. I'm not one to try and tank Susano Ex in Sword Oath, but bet your ass I do one or two RoH rotations on the pull and off to DPS rotation I go. The only other time you'll see me use RoH again in that fight is on tank swaps to solidify aggro if shirk isn't being used. The rest of the time it's my DoT combo when needed, holy spirit spam, and RA combo.

I know it's not a ton of damage, but to me it's awesome seeing that 7k+ holy spirit crit smacking mobs right in the face. It adds another dimension to the usual meat shield, hold threat next to zero damage tank mentality of other MMO's.