Don't be "that DPS"

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

I never said anything about a low gear level, if that was the case I'd understand. My response was directly aimed at your comment of how if a tank is bad then it's still the DPSs fault for pulling aggro.

If you're going to debate someone, don't take his or her words and twist them to fit your argument, makes you seem more ignorant than the point you were trying to make. I'll also disregard your improper use of "there", even if you insulted my reading comprehension. If all you can do is attack the person and not their argument, then don't even bother replying.

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I didn't twist your words, you said no excuses. That's an absolute statement and you didn't specify exactly what the scenario was, just no excuses. If you meant only in endgame raiding and extreme trials you should have stated that.

Thanks for "disregarding" my grammatical error by the way, means a lot. I did notice it actually just after I posted but couldn't be bothered to edit it out. Also, I did attack your argument, what little you made of one anyway.

As a tank, this isn't what bothers me. If I lose a mob, I'll get it back, its whatever. However...

What bothers me is more along the lines of this scenario:

After all the shit in the OP's post happens, I voke+Unmend the mob, y'know, like ya do. This always starts with me doing a big AoE pull and the DPS in question decides to cherry pick 1 out of 10 mobs to be their BFF of Eternal Fucking Bonding.

The DPS, invariably a ranged DPS (like, literally always) doesn't move, just sits there like a SACK OF LEAD, and continues hitting the same mob.

I know the expectation is that the tank will about face and run his ass over there to melee it off the squishy little caster/brd/ whatever, in the process turning his back to the 10 other things he's tanking (no parrying/blocking) and throwing everything else out of positional range for the melee DPS/possibly cleaving them or healer. All the other mobs get pulled out of Flaming Arrow/Doton/Shadow Flare/Salted Earth. All the while fucking up EVERYBODY else's DPS, hurting the tank's mitigation, fucking up positioning, wasting my MP or TP (ranged tank abilities are not cheap), all so you could... whatever.

If you see voke+Unmend/Tomahawk/Shield Lob, STOP HITTING THAT SAME MOB, and if you're going to insist on fucking up the pull like that, at least run it over to the tank's melee range. I'm not going to OOM spamming Unmend to try and rip that thing off you only to have you make snarky comments about me "not doing my job".

Mmmm. Makes me seethe. Don't be THAT DPS.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

in the process turning his back to the 10 other things he's tanking (no parrying/blocking)

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As far as I know you still block and parry even if the things hitting you are at your back, only exception being while under the effect of Raw Intuition CD by warrior.

But in the scenario you had just let that dps die and tell him he wasn't doing his job, you're meant to work as a team not against each other, this scenario is also one of the reasons I refuse to tank anything with random people

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

As far as I know you still block and parry even if the things hitting you are at your back, only exception being while under the effect of Raw Intuition CD by warrior.

But in the scenario you had just let that dps die and tell him he wasn't doing his job, you're meant to work as a team not against each other, this scenario is also one of the reasons I refuse to tank anything with random people

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Nope parry and block are only frontal.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Nope parry and block are only frontal.

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Guess they have changed it then, we tested that for some progression in 2.1 I think it was and our pld was blocking while back turned to the boss

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

As a tank, this isn't what bothers me. If I lose a mob, I'll get it back, its whatever. However...

What bothers me is more along the lines of this scenario:

After all the shit in the OP's post happens, I voke+Unmend the mob, y'know, like ya do. This always starts with me doing a big AoE pull and the DPS in question decides to cherry pick 1 out of 10 mobs to be their BFF of Eternal Fucking Bonding.

The DPS, invariably a ranged DPS (like, literally always) doesn't move, just sits there like a SACK OF LEAD, and continues hitting the same mob.

I know the expectation is that the tank will about face and run his ass over there to melee it off the squishy little caster/brd/ whatever, in the process turning his back to the 10 other things he's tanking (no parrying/blocking)

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*snip*
make snarky comments about me "not doing my job".

Mmmm. Makes me seethe. Don't be THAT DPS.

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Maybe don't lose the mob in the first place? I always AoE with 3+ mobs and sometimes tanks will ignore the fact that they have to control hate on all the mobs. On the second or third flare I'll routinely rib a mob or 3 away. I used to switch to single target damage and switch targets when I noticed an enemy go orange, but I stopped because I'm really just enabling a bad tank.

The problem is tanks will be in DPS stance and then get mad when mobs are ripped away from them. I do more DPS doing AoE than you do extra in DPS stance. Please don't let me rip mobs from you because you want to increase your DPS a little bit. Further the whole group dies faster if you don't try and burst mobs down one at a time. Every mob that dies early is 2.2k F2 damage that is lost or 2.5k+ of Flare damage that is lost (about 600 DPS loss per dead mob). Granted this is melee DPS problem as well.

Further, if I rip a mob away from you, if it's only one, it's probably fine to let me handle it. Manaward/Manawall and single target burst I can handle myself until the rest of the mobs are dead and the group can attack the mob attacking me.

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Originally Posted by AniCelestine

Guess they have changed it then, we tested that for some progression in 2.1 I think it was and our pld was blocking while back turned to the boss

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Yea, it's definitely only the front. My sheltron fails even if they are slightly on my flank (super annoying).

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

Snippers

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I feel your pain there. Sometimes I pull back to grab it, but doing so usually results in a severe dip to my hp as I run through the middle of the mobs I just pulled, getting pummeled to the face while I'm at it. I'll usually attempt a provoke and shield lob first (as you said, quite costly in the TP). But if I see the other DPS run to help the puller, i will usually just let them burn it and hold the mob until they're ready (which better be soon...). The good news, I have more time to establish a good aggro lead xD (and somehow, they always find that one I didn't hit that much... damn murphy's law!).

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

snip

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This happens before the pull has settled. I AoE like a madman. The problem occurs when I have pulled 6-10 targets and somebody picks ONE and goes ham on it while I'm still running. I'm sorry but i'm not going to spam Unmend to keep that one mob from somebody's single target dps when I'm trying to give everyone a nice clean speedrun aoe pull.

But sure blame the tank.


I just realized we're on the same server. Talk is cheap. Hit me up sometime for a roulette and I'll take you for a ride >:]

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

*Snip*

I just realized we're on the same server. Talk is cheap. Hit me up sometime for a roulette and I'll take you for a ride >:]

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Hey I'll gladly take a Roulette ride. Tank Queues are amazing.

I was more specifically talking about the tank who focuses down one mob and may even rank each mob for order to die.
If someone is a dork and single target focuses a mob, they deserve to die if they grab aggro. It's also probably not worth it to grab hate back from that player as most classes can take one mob long enough for the group of mobs to die if 'Voke and Tomahawk/shield lob don't grab the mob back.
I also said it's also a melee DPS problem not just a tank problem. Proper target rotation is needed.

It's really disheartening to see a mob die when the group is focusing one mob and the other 6 mobs are at half health due solely to my AoE.
If I rip hate away when I'm doing AoE after the pull has solidified, that's when I SMH.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

If you see voke+Unmend/Tomahawk/Shield Lob, STOP HITTING THAT SAME MOB, and if you're going to insist on fucking up the pull like that, at least run it over to the tank's melee range. I'm not going to OOM spamming Unmend to try and rip that thing off you only to have you make snarky comments about me "not doing my job".

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Let em have it.

It's not like they're going to start AoEing. No amount of Provoke is going to save them from themselves.