Why are people rewarded for cheating?

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

Trust me, do NOT show these people evidence that SE is doing something because you WILL ruin their pipe dreams. And if you ruin their pipe dreams then posts like this would cease and I would not be sitting here at work on my phone entertained :)

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I don't think anyone would disagree that SE is doing something - but whatever they're doing is only partially effective.

For example, RMT spam via /shout and /yell no longer seems to be a huge problem (as it was at the 2.0 launch), but RMT spam via /tell and friend request seems to be getting worse, at least on our server. RMT is clearly still alive and spamming.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

I don't think anyone would disagree that SE is doing something - but whatever they're doing is only partially effective.

For example, RMT spam via /shout and /yell no longer seems to be a huge problem (as it was at the 2.0 launch), but RMT spam via /tell and friend request seems to be getting worse, at least on our server. RMT is clearly still alive and spamming.

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Well I definitely don't support the little bastards. I mean ... botting to get your game on is just, well, loser-ville. And I never had any idea I had SO many friends that are level 1 in Ul'dah (what IS it with that town anyway? i never get a bot request from NG or LL. Just Ul'dah). The newest form of harassment for me is the bots are now adding you as a friend, and with the current system, I go to decline the friend request and blacklist them, but the instant I click "decline", they spam me again, and you can't add someone to your blacklist with a friend request pending. So my routine now is to ignore them and at the end of my gaming night I just go through and remove them, since by then they are usually offline or kicked by the GMs.

But on the other side of the fence, folks saying that market prices or something like that are ruining their game would NEVER be able to play an MMO even near launch, and I guarantee none of these people were on FFXIV at launch time. No way. because they wouldn't survive it. Why? There was no market! At launch we all had to go out and earn our gear, mats, materia, etc. People talk about "cheating" with the botters, when that is all interpretation. It's the same as me interpreting how I feel, which is that if you go to the market board instead of actually getting your stuff on your own - you are cheating also.

Now of course someone will TRY to say to me "well I don't have time for . . . " And I will say bullshit, because I work 1 full time job, I have a business I run on the side, and I am going to college full time, and I still find the time to get everything I need in this game on my own WITHOUT relying on this so-called "game economy". This is why I vendor trash my materia, gear, etc that I do not need. I refuse to support cheating by others just buying what I went out and got on my own - oh wait - this sounds familiar - kind of like buying Gil . . . so, no I do not support either one. But I won't let me life be ruined by either one either.

Basically on the spam issues I do agree with you, and in another thread I have been speaking out strongly against the spammers. This thread is not about the spammers, though. It's about people seeing what they are interpreting as bots running around doing stuff, and that's an entirely different issue altogether. If SE wants to go after botters, fine. But FIRST let's fix what DOES effect everyone - this stupid extra coding that they did to prevent us from blacklisting someone as long as a friend request is pending. That actually took EXTRA code to do, and no other MMO has ever done this, which can give the impression that SE actually supports spam harassment. The time taken to write the extensive and complicated code to block you from blacklisting someone who has sent you a friend request could have easily gone toward, say, one of the reporting systems that people are crying out for so loudly in this thread (which I DO support - I always support easy reporting of issues to staff).

I am not denying that SE is not working against the larger chinese companies that deal with RMT on every MMO in the world. It is those who are not with those massive RMT companies that use bots just to cheat the system whether it is ease in farming 24/7 or automated rotations that gives them sim perfect rotations.

Take the Zodiac quest line for example. If you are a normal player who follows the rules of the land you have to do your normal zodiac up to atmas then grind all 7 atmas. Then you have to buy 9 books then proceed to grind alexandrite/materia and spirit grind for 115 weapons.

If you use a bot program you have to get your I level 90 zodiac weapon then grind 9 books then bam you are 115. If you knew that some people in the game was given an option to skip 75% of the zodiac grind because they broke the rules and you had to do all of that crap then you would want action taken. Well that is exactly what is going on and this is an mmo and not an offline game. Botters/cheaters affect every player and I for one am tired of people thinking that bots exsist in mmo's and that is the norm so get over it.

Well I do not let it affect me but I will be darned if I let cheaters get away with what they do so I say to people who defend botting should just be ignored and move on I suggest you either do a post about how much you love bots or move on since this is not really the thread for you. Bots are the single biggest problem in mmo's and when people find out they can start to cheat without real worry of retribution (from players mentality that it doesnt hurt people so should not be disrupted) they become more bold and take the cheating to new levels.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

...huh?

1. desynth bridesmaid sandals. get fieldcraft 3, get spruce lumber.

2. buy aldgoat horns from kobold. make horn glue HQ.

3. use 52 second 2 button rotation to make spruce plywood HQ, using either hasty touch method, or if you are already geared, using 100% HQ rotation.

4. trade for artisan tool

5. desynth tool, have 20% chance at mastercrafts.

6 profit!

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When I spend a couple hours getting enough for 10 artisan specs at a time and only one yields a Mastercraft materia three rounds in a row I just get really annoyed.

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Originally Posted by allecs

Gil trickles in way to slowly (because there's no real economy in this game because that would be to hard for the kiddies) unless you have a slew of workers. Like the Korean companies, then you have them undercutting you to dirt. Therefore still gaining nothing.

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That's when you buy out all the undercutters and post your own prices ;P whenever I post something I rarely ever undercut. The only reason I would is if the screen is filled by 1 person posting a crap ton of 99 items just so I can actually see it. 99% of the time, I overcut (yes, I post higher prices than the bare minimum)

One example, there are 10 (items) being sold at 2999 gil for stacks of 99 the next highest price is 5450 (because someone was undercutting) I post small amount items at 5400 - 6000 in much smaller stacks. Mine sell while the stacks of 99 sit... and sit.... and sit and then I restock (not ever selling more than * of the same item at a time, ie. 6 stacks of 5 items) and keep filling it up as long as people are buying.

Honesty, I make and spend so much gil its quite pathetic. IE. I spend from 2.4 million down to 770k and 2 days later I'm back up to 2.1 mil again and keep repeating the process. Its really not hard *after* you actually sit down at the MB for a few hours actually seeing what sells the most at the highest prices daily. It will vary server to server, but the principle is still the same. Do your research and profit. Keep an eye on more than one product at a time. If you can, take advantage of market fluctuations. IE some things sell high mid week while other things sell high on weekends. What you make depends on what you actually put into it (and have the capability of making.)

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Originally Posted by Dreufo

When I spend a couple hours getting enough for 10 artisan specs at a time and only one yields a Mastercraft materia three rounds in a row I just get really annoyed.

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well... yeah. artisan specs haven't been the way to get mastercrafts for two patches now. literally any other product is better than them. just like CUL and ALC are now the two weakest classes for getting mastercrafts.

assuming a .5 chance of spruce lumber from desynthing sandals, it should take 72-74 minutes per 4 artisan tools, which each have a 20% chance at 1-3 mastercrafts. averaged out over 400 or so runs, it comes out to around .57 mastercrafts per artisan tool. unless you are really unlucky, it shouldn't take more than an hour and a half to get each mastercraft, even if you aren't making them in bulk.

I appreciate this topic, though, and it actually has a point. lets make another thread for this, and let these people argue over nothing in the meantime.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

sensible snip.

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very true. good contribution.

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

Now of course someone will TRY to say to me "well I don't have time for . . . " And I will say bullshit, because I work 1 full time job, I have a business I run on the side, and I am going to college full time, and I still find the time to get everything I need in this game on my own WITHOUT relying on this so-called "game economy". This is why I vendor trash my materia, gear, etc that I do not need. I refuse to support cheating by others just buying what I went out and got on my own - oh wait - this sounds familiar - kind of like buying Gil . . . so, no I do not support either one. But I won't let me life be ruined by either one either.

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speaking as someone for whom the game economy is my entire end game, and the only reason why I even play, this makes me sad. the economy is the whole reason this game is an MMO. if not, I could be talking to a whole bunch of NPC's in a single player game, and it would be exactly the same.

the economy is NOT cheating. its playing the game how it is supposed to be playing. Vendor trashing all your items may negate your need for the community, but you also aren't contributing to the MMO community by doing so. If you want to do that, go play some single player game, you will get as much out of it as this one, if not more so.

and equating using the market that is a foundation of the game itself to RMT buying... I just... I cant even come up with a legitimate retort to it. its telling us that your opinion is that people shouldn't play the game.

edit: I just checked, and you aren't a crafter. I can understand your opinion slightly more. a battle only player has a vastly reduced need for things like economy, or markets, or any type of community apart from linkshells. This game does a very good job of making sure that if someone doesn't want to use the market, they don't HAVE to, as long as they aren't looking to use the economy system at all. no making gil, no losing gil, no spending outside of vendor npc's. I'll bet you also cant afford a house either, though. that requires the economy.

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Originally Posted by tocsin

I'll bet you also cant afford a house either, though. that requires the economy.

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Buying a house does require the economy. The vendors (that is economy, too, because they do buy your stuff) are just our choice of who we sell to. It might take longer, but I, as well as others I know, have our houses just from the Gil we saved up. My sweetie and I went in together on both of our houses. But in so doing we avoid completely all this bot business.

EDIT: Just to repeat again because I know I'll be accused . . . no . . . i am NOT defending Bots. This is a forum thread which simply makes it open to opinion and feedback from all points of view. I am simply giving mine on how I play and how gameplay affects me WITHOUT condoning or defending botting at all. The whole point of my initial postings was to remind that some players can still enjoy the game without cheating, and also without stressing about the cheaters. If ANY aspect of the game gets you to the point where you are not enjoying it,. simply switch games and be happy. That's the point of gaming - to have fun, right? And if enough players feel this way, they would all unsubscribe and move on, and then SE would see a loss of money, make some changes, and when those changes go public, you come back happy again. Everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by Faelandaea

reasonable snippet.

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I can quite agree with that. I, as well, am quite happy with how the game works. It doesn't matter how many bots there are, or how many rmt tells I get. I can just ignore them all, and buy cheap shards. am I feeding the RMT market gil? probably. Do I care/ does it affect me? absolutely not! im getting my piece of the pie, and im happy with my piece. if someone got rid of all the bots, and made the whole pie smaller, I would get a smaller piece as well.

just play the game. the RMT people aren't actually hindering you, they just are annoying. ignore them, and you will be just fine.

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Originally Posted by silverhope

Crafting is why they cheat. lot of gil to sell to players

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So, cheaters selling to cheaters. All keeps in family!