Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Weights:
WD: 9.349
STR: 1
CRT: 0.233
DET: 0.327
SS: 0.198

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Has anyone actually worked out how well SS scales as you get more of it?

Quick question regarding Chaos Thrust, is the potency bonus from rear or flank attacks? The patch notes say rear, the tooltip says flank. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

its actually rear try a training dumy like 10 times on flank and 10 times on rear its almost 100+ dmg each time

So I've gotta say... lv 4x mobs just melt now. DRG was already pretty good at that, but they're seriously dying before I even get to Chaos Thrust.

As far as magic defense goes, I logged out with 329 on Monday and logged back in with 443. Where the patch notes say "values comparative to other melee DPS, archers, and bards", it's actually equal MDEF, at least at i110. So that extra DRG VIT means we have more effective survivability than other physical DPS against both physical and magic damage. Cool beans.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

So I've gotta say... lv 4x mobs just melt now. DRG was already pretty good at that, but they're seriously dying before I even get to Chaos Thrust.

As far as magic defense goes, I logged out with 329 on Monday and logged back in with 443. Where the patch notes say "values comparative to other melee DPS, archers, and bards", it's actually equal MDEF, at least at i110. So that extra DRG VIT means we have more effective survivability than other physical DPS against both physical and magic damage. Cool beans.

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With full party my MDEF was at 520ish when doing T10/11 post patch. Kaliya's critical Nerve Cloud wiped everyone but me lol DRG IMBA.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

So I've gotta say... lv 4x mobs just melt now. DRG was already pretty good at that, but they're seriously dying before I even get to Chaos Thrust.

As far as magic defense goes, I logged out with 329 on Monday and logged back in with 443. Where the patch notes say "values comparative to other melee DPS, archers, and bards", it's actually equal MDEF, at least at i110. So that extra DRG VIT means we have more effective survivability than other physical DPS against both physical and magic damage. Cool beans.

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It should be the same as before in the scenario you described, since nothing in the chain prior to CT has had potency buffed.
HT is still 170, ID is still 180, Dis is still 220.

The difference is that HT and ID are now guaranteed without having to worry about stuns or your approach. You can just run in Jenkins-style and get all that right away.

hm, i actually take back what i said earlier

2.47 GCD or 365 skillspeed is the number to hit if you want to fit in 2 phlebotomize or full thrusts in one B4B duration. it's pretty tight, but you can fit in all three jumps in and still hit it. although if you miss much more than 0.01s of your gcd, you'll probably miss the window. you basically need to cast BFB in a way that ensures you can use a GCD as soon as its animation lock ends, with no waiting on the GCD to cool off (so you'd use BFB at around 0.3s left on GCD or so). a lot of the times, unless you're right on the dot, you'll probably clip your GCD by 0.1s or so in order to get this BFB timed well enough that you can get an extra FT/phlebotomize in. the 535 bis with flint caviar has 2.47 ss, which is a bit more lenient and lets you fit in all three jumps, but it's still tight even then.

effectively that's 108 extra potency in damage every BFB cast, or about 1.35 potency per second if you get BFB off CD. the DRG bis with the flint caviar has 370 skill speed, which achieves 2.47 gcd; too bad you'll be chugging down 30k+ foods for t13 ;_;

comparison of sets

set 1 - 540 501 409 341
set 2 - 535 558 358 370

-5 acc, +57 crit, -41 det, +29 skill speed.

trading 41 det for 57 crit and that skillspeed (which allows for extra phle/FT in bfb) seems like a tough call, especially since life surge buff has probably decreased crit weight slightly. honestly, 535 might not even be 100% confirmed for t13 flank cap; i hear a lot of 536 confirmed 100% hit rates, but no real evidence for 535.

although if your scholar is using selene, you can disregard most of this post half the time w

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

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That's an answer I was exactly looking for. Thanks.

365 SS is an incredibly easy number to hit, though taking off as much SS as possible seems the difficult part really.

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Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

The difference is that HT and ID are now guaranteed without having to worry about stuns or your approach. You can just run in Jenkins-style and get all that right away.

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Haha yes when in a dungeon with a bard, I like to disembowel everything off the bat for them. Much easier now we don't have to move to rear for each one. it's pewpewpew done.

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Originally Posted by RachaelMarie22

Haha yes when in a dungeon with a bard, I like to disembowel everything off the bat for them. Much easier now we don't have to move to rear for each one. it's pewpewpew done.

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What? You severely gimp your own DPS just to put Disembowel up on multiple targets for your bard? oO

Your Bard won't win enough DPS to compensate the DPS you are wasting as a DRG. Either multi-dot the targets on your own or go flat out AoE to speed things up.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

It works best with a much lower Skill Speed. 389 so far is working very, very well without having to slow down my button presses on purpose. 408 was also half decent, but I had to delay the CT/FT every couple of Life Surges by a few split seconds. I think for simplicities sake, keeping Life Surge with Full Thrusts (60s intervals) works the smoothest for all skill speeds and much less risk involved. Having to slightly slow-down your cooldowns at higher SkillSpeeds will hinder your DPS, but it's nice to see that there is something else that does provide a slight DPS increase that we can work on.

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For those using this rotation, it's better if you open with B4B then IR. That way your LS will always be up exactly during the GCD before FT / CT. If you use IR then B4B, most of the time B4B would have like a 1 second or so delay when FT / CT is up thus making you wait for LS to be up.

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

What? You severely gimp your own DPS just to put Disembowel up on multiple targets for your bard? oO

Your Bard won't win enough DPS to compensate the DPS you are wasting as a DRG. Either multi-dot the targets on your own or go flat out AoE to speed things up.

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I mean for like a group of 3 mobs, then I plop CT on the next target along. Any bigger is aoe time. Stuff dies fast now cause of my gear so I just go lazy mode in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by RachaelMarie22

I mean for like a group of 3 mobs, then I plop CT on the next target along. Any bigger is aoe time. Stuff dies fast now cause of my gear so I just go lazy mode in dungeons.

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Even then I find it more efficient to just mulit-dot the targets or AoE them down, if they are balled up in way that you can land Doomspike on all three of them.

I just like helping my bard friends ^.^ they give me the precious teepee so I should give something in return hehe

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Originally Posted by kyrios91

For those using this rotation, it's better if you open with B4B then IR. That way your LS will always be up exactly during the GCD before FT / CT. If you use IR then B4B, most of the time B4B would have like a 1 second or so delay when FT / CT is up thus making you wait for LS to be up.

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depends on your skillspeed tbh. for me with ht>ir>id>psbfb it comes up once or twice right before FT, and then the 3rd or so it comes up for phlebotomize (same potency as FT)

Yup. Also depending on your Skill Speed, your Jump will either fit in between two GDCs, or you'll have to delay the usage of Jump by 1s to go after the next GDC. You never want to delay your GDC's to use your off Cooldowns.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am i111 and have 452 SS. Is this fine at all? I have pretty much close to the BiS for my ilv according to ariyalla site. So wasn't sure, thats all. Thanks!

Yes, 452 is fine. Just make sure you're using Life Surge only on Full Thrusts, rather than rotating between FT and CT. I also noticed that the Pre-T13 BiS set I posted uses Flint Caviars, and I know a lot of you won't want to fork out 25-30k gil per food, so here it is with Black Truffle Risotto.

Pre-T13 @ 535 Acc w/ Black Truffle Risotto
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OUAY

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Yes, 452 is fine. Just make sure you're using Life Surge only on Full Thrusts, rather than rotating between FT and CT. I also noticed that the Pre-T13 BiS set I posted uses Flint Caviars, and I know a lot of you won't want to fork out 25-30k gil per food, so here it is with Black Truffle Risotto.

Pre-T13 @ 535 Acc w/ Black Truffle Risotto
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OUAL

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Two rings of slaying? ;)

Fixed...

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OUAY

Just got Longinus on my DRG, the weapon looks very disappointing. . . It looks more like a BLM staff rather than a spear =(

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HpeQxaG.jpg[/IMG]

tempted to just go and get started on a gae bolg atma or zenith to glamour over that w

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Fixed...

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OUAY

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So, I'm pretty new to FF and just started to do updated endgame content. As for BiS gears, I see a lot of informations end usually get confused, so I have some questions about this set you sugests.

As of DRG current stats weights, I usually go for the Acc cap (pre-t13 in this case) and then just try to stack as much Det>Crit as I can get. As I have been reading so far, SS is pretty useless and even when you stack it to get more 1 or 2 GCD on burst, looks like the TP cost and "dificult" don't pay off the DPS increase on this scenario. Am I wrong? That beeing said, is any need to get ANY SS on gear? I ask this specially for the Dread Chest. The Det from the poetics chest is more valuable then the Dread crit and even that over capped accuracy could help in some (rare) situations when you end up hitting the boss from the front.

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Originally Posted by Cyfer

Just got Longinus on my DRG, the weapon looks very disappointing. . . It looks more like a BLM staff rather than a spear =(

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It does look like a blm weapon. Zenith was my favourite. Never really liked the re-colour the atma brought.

Since we are talking about ugly spears, let me spew out that the dreadwyrm spear is extremely lackluster and just plain ugly.

Being the top tier and currently the best weapon in game, you'd think it would have more character to it. The allagan spear, albeit the can opener appearance, had a special sound when you draw it. The High allagan had a red glowy scheme and a lightsaber-esque sound effect when you draw it.
The dreadwyrm? Sounds like a weathered spear, doesn't look like a spear at all. It has a short fat head. Ugh its so ugly.

HA spear kinda looks like a shovel tho. But I think that was the general consensus of most of the dreadwyrm gear, just no bueno.

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Originally Posted by Cyfer

Just got Longinus on my DRG, the weapon looks very disappointing. . . It looks more like a BLM staff rather than a spear =(

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HpeQxaG.jpg[/IMG]

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Actually the style and the color theme + red gems look good. The problem is the head(s) of the spear itself - it's just twirled and pointed to random directions. IMO it would be better if all the 3 points meet in the center.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

So, I'm pretty new to FF and just started to do updated endgame content. As for BiS gears, I see a lot of informations end usually get confused, so I have some questions about this set you sugests.

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Even though SS isn't favoured, it does in fact hold some weight and does help increase your overall DPS output. Saying it's absolutely useless is far, far from the truth. Hell, I'm still rocking 481 SS and I'm comfortable with it.

Augmented Ironworks Chest:
DET: 23*0.325 = 7.521

Dreadwyrm Mail:
CRT: 33*0.223 = 7.359
SS: 47*0.198 = 9.306
Total: 16.665

At a very basic level of gearing up, ensuring you're hitting those Item Level increases whilst reaching for those accuracy requirements for the content you're currently tackling is more than enough. Just use the BiS sets I post as guide-lines for what you should be obtaining and optimise later down the road. Unless you're pushing for world/server firsts, aiming for that 2-4 DPS increase doesn't do much.

people keep repeating the 6% bard dps increase

think bards are doing more non-dot damage now

I'm seeing dots being 15-18% of my bards damage in t10-t13 aka disembowel should now be like 8% and was like 8.2%-8.5% for my bard.

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Originally Posted by Cyfer

Just got Longinus on my DRG, the weapon looks very disappointing. . . It looks more like a BLM staff rather than a spear =(

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HpeQxaG.jpg[/IMG]

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I think it looks amazing. Especially after the travesties that Novus and Nexus were. Its a trident in a demonic-ish style. It along with the other weapons could be a foreshadowing to Heavensward's dark more mature theme Yoshi-P has mentioned.

The only thing I really don't like about Longinus is that glow. I mean, it looks like a broken Christmas light. Not even in the creepy way.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Usefull info and Math

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I see. In a pure stats weight calculation, I can see a DPS gain. But, specially on t12, I see the following situation:

On first phase, for 3 or 4 hits, I end up beeing in front of Phoenix, due to evade the whitefire AoE. On third Phase, sometimes I end up hitting bennus from front. None of these situations should happen, and when do, it's rare. But in this situations, I can benefit from a slightly accuracy.

For the SS, and this is what concerns me more, with my current 370 SS, I'm not having any TP issues, and our Bard doesn't play Paeon. I do understand that I could land more autoatacks and fit more GCD during bursts with SS, but till wich point it'll worth, if it can possibly make me starve for TP, or bring our bard DPS down in order to play Paeon?

I know it's a tricky question and every DRG handle it in different ways. But I would like to know more opinions about wich would be the "ideal" SS value, or anything close to it.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

I see. In a pure stats weight calculation, I can see a DPS gain. But, specially on t12, I see the following situation:

On first phase, for 3 or 4 hits, I end up beeing in front of Phoenix, due to evade the whitefire AoE. On third Phase, sometimes I end up hitting bennus from front. None of these situations should happen, and when do, it's rare. But in this situations, I can benefit from a slightly accuracy.

For the SS, and this is what concerns me more, with my current 370 SS, I'm not having any TP issues, and our Bard doesn't play Paeon. I do understand that I could land more autoatacks and fit more GCD during bursts with SS, but till wich point it'll worth, if it can possibly make me starve for TP, or bring our bard DPS down in order to play Paeon?

I know it's a tricky question and every DRG handle it in different ways. But I would like to know more opinions about wich would be the "ideal" SS value, or anything close to it.

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I have played around with high and low SS, there are benefits and downsides to either side. ultimately it is up to you and how you prefer your rotation to play out. ive ended up going with minimizing SS as much as possible, lets my bard lay off TP song at times and it has helped me line up the way im using the new recast times on offGCDs, but again i would try a few runs with both and see which one fits you better.

For acc, i usually try to get frontal cap, there is always the occasion where you will hit from the front especially with adds, no reason to break your combos and rotation because you devoted those 10 or so stat points else where.

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Originally Posted by Dunncan

I see. In a pure stats weight calculation, I can see a DPS gain. But, specially on t12, I see the following situation:

On first phase, for 3 or 4 hits, I end up beeing in front of Phoenix, due to evade the whitefire AoE. On third Phase, sometimes I end up hitting bennus from front. None of these situations should happen, and when do, it's rare. But in this situations, I can benefit from a slightly accuracy.
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you can have the person with white fire give you more room as they only have to hit one blackfire now. Alternatively if another melee gets whitefire, I just eat the aoe.

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Originally Posted by CesarLongsword

(...) ive ended up going with minimizing SS as much as possible, lets my bard lay off TP song at times and it has helped me line up the way im using the new recast times on offGCDs(...)

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In my experience, i have ended up in the same aproach. Just looking for some other points of view.

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

you can have the person with white fire give you more room as they only have to hit one blackfire now. Alternatively if another melee gets whitefire, I just eat the aoe.

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Yes, depending who gets the whitefire, I can do some dance arround the boss but, sometimes, I just go front for safety. But that's not a big problem, it's more a situation that ends up happening once in a while in every turn.

Thanks for the advices :D

Math check: so according to the stat weights the Snakeliege spear is better than a Liberator by like a few decimals? Trying to see if its worth it for PvP.

Hey guys, I'm interested if anyone can give me some help. I would like to buy some 110 crafted pieces and meld them, as long as they beat the 120 ironworks pieces. Dragoon isn't my main so it wont be seeing any fcob loot, or any ironworks augmentations.

So which melded 110 pieces beat the 120 iron works pieces? Appart from the super obviously amazing ironworks pants and shoes.

Thanks.

PS: ON AN AMAZING SIDENOTE. WE GET THE LANCE OF LONGINUS!!!!! ( neon genesis evangelion reference ftw <3 )

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Originally Posted by Cidolfas86

Math check: so according to the stat weights the Snakeliege spear is better than a Liberator by like a few decimals? Trying to see if its worth it for PvP.

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Worth it to grind PvP for a weapon that's already behind the PvE curve? Not really, and if you were going to grind out a weapon the relic would get you far more mileage since it can be upgraded to i125 now. I mean if you can already buy it I guess it's got some use, but the weapon damage increase from either getting your relic to i115 or upgrading the Shiva weapon would be a wiser use of your time.

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Originally Posted by Cyfer

Just got Longinus on my DRG, the weapon looks very disappointing. . . It looks more like a BLM staff rather than a spear =(

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HpeQxaG.jpg[/IMG]

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thanks for posting a pic of it, i hadn't seen it yet. i think it looks pretty epic, especially matched to the right outfit (bc fashion matters as much as anything in this game amirite? ;D