"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by TBerry

You do realize that if it's pointless if you don't even let tanks do their job, right?

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Maybe you should define "not letting tanks do their job".
Because if you pull a mob to the tank and he stops hitting the AoE buttons, it's the tank who refuses to do their job.
And if you're not required to tank, why does it bother you so much that you're not tanking?

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Originally Posted by loosie

Maybe you should define "not letting tanks do their job".
Because if you pull a mob to the tank and he stops hitting the AoE buttons, it's the tank who refuses to do their job.
And if you're not required to tank, why does it bother you so much that you're not tanking?

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Not even attempts of wall-to-walls are guaranteed because someone just wants to speedrun without anyone's consent. Unless there is an L next to your name you do not decide the pace if you're not Tank or Healer.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

The tank is tanking the mobs the tank grabbed. The tank has judged the amount of mobs he or she can handle given the unknown quantities in the party and their own ability. That was the job the tank agreed to when clicking the queue button. Someone else pulls additional and the party dies, wasting more time than if they'd just been a little patient, but hey it's okay, because at least "you tried"?

Come on, you're not even trying to make it make sense.

Go ahead, report folks for not picking up mobs you unilaterally decided as a DPS the tank and healer "should" be okay with handling. And continue to watch those sweet, sweet 15+ minutes queues because fewer and fewer folks want to deal with the stress and nonsense and either do trusts or only play with FC members\friends.

As an aside, why don't you folks just do that? Want to push the limits? Throw up a PF or run with friends and everyone can pull everything. You'd honestly probably fill faster doing that. Don't bring that to the queue and expect everyone is performing at your expected peak level. Some folks are gearing up, not ready for wall to wall, just returning to the game, know they have a RL distraction they might need to look at in a second, the reasons for not going at breakneck speed are endless. You never know what you get in a roulette, why is it such a problem to be chill and let the tanks and healers set the pace?

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You forgot that tanks are not allowed to be tired, distracted, taking care of a youngling or simply still learning or stressed.
DPS and healers are allowed to be, and woe is you if you dare say even the kindest of words against them, because you do not pay their sub, and if they die over and over again, they are poor little angels who just need to be given a chance?

Tanks, however? Be learned before the expansion launches and make sure you are always at 100% efficiency and tanking boss to boss or your are an entitled selfish tank who deserves no comms and should only play single player games.

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Originally Posted by loosie

Maybe you should define "not letting tanks do their job".
Because if you pull a mob to the tank and he stops hitting the AoE buttons, it's the tank who refuses to do their job.
And if you're not required to tank, why does it bother you so much that you're not tanking?

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So you just ignoring what I said about CD's. We have moves that make use take less damage we need to use or die. If I start a pull I'm popping some of these, if it's a big pull I wait till all mobs are together, before pressing CD's if it's a small one I use it as soon as I've got the mobs were I want them. If I've press my CD's and then all of a sudden another pack of mobs is brought into the fight, I'm getting shafted, because the DPS decided they were bored/wanted to get a purple colour for this dungeon.

There are many reasons as to why the tank is pulling smaller packs, by all means ask is there a reason, and maybe suggest you could gather them up etc. However the fact remains, aggro is the tanks responsibility their for pulling is their responsibility and the decision of how many mobs are in this fight, is the tanks to make. If you don't like that when you pull as a DPS, you're rolling the dice on if I feel like taking aggro from you, but you're literally now the bottom of my priority list. Staying alive is number 1 and if that means I watch 3 mobs smash you teeth in for the next 30s while I waste of CD's then that's your fault.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

The tank is tanking the mobs the tank grabbed. The tank has judged the amount of mobs he or she can handle given the unknown quantities in the party and their own ability. That was the job the tank agreed to when clicking the queue button. Someone else pulls additional and the party dies, wasting more time than if they'd just been a little patient, but hey it's okay, because at least "you tried"?

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Yes, it's okay. There is nearly no penalty for death in FFXIV and if you wipe, that's fine and you just laugh it off and try again. If a DPS pulled, then it becomes obvious the tank or healer couldn't handle it.
There's a difference between failing to do your job, and not even trying to do it in the first place.
How would you feel if DPS players stop AoEing because the tank wouldn't get a lone ranged mob into the pack? If a healer decided to start rescuing players into insta death mechanics because the tank wouldn't say "Thank you" after every GCD heal? Hell, a couple days ago I ran into some lunatic healer who refused to heal the tank because he wouldn't pop his invuln on the last mob in the pack.

I'm saying all this as a tank main and I want to see people be nice to each other in Duty Finder rather than come with this hateful, arrogant behavior. I always try my best and I join the queue with the expectation that everybody else will too.
I don't pull extra mobs because I know the tank might have a legitimate reason not to, but damnit if somebody does pull I'm going to do my very best.

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Originally Posted by loosie

Yes, it's okay. There is nearly no penalty for death in FFXIV and if you wipe, that's fine and you just laugh it off and try again. If a DPS pulled, then it becomes obvious the tank or healer couldn't handle it.
There's a difference between failing to do your job, and not even trying to do it in the first place.
How would you feel if DPS players stop AoEing because the tank wouldn't get a lone ranged mob into the pack? If a healer decided to start rescuing players into insta death mechanics because the tank wouldn't say "Thank you" after every GCD heal? Hell, a couple days ago I ran into some lunatic healer who refused to heal the tank because he wouldn't pop his invuln on the last mob in the pack.

I'm saying all this as a tank main and I want to see people be nice to each other in Duty Finder rather than come with this hateful, arrogant behavior. I always try my best and I join the queue with the expectation that everybody else will too.
I don't pull extra mobs because I know the tank might have a legitimate reason not to, but damnit if somebody does pull I'm going to do my very best.

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Honestly wouldn't care less if the DPS suddenly decide to stop AOEing trash packs. It's fine if the fight takes longer, I'm focused on keeping aggro, my rotation, avoiding AOE's without moving mobs too much and staying alive. You can say it till you're blue in the face, since you seem to be avoiding any logical arguments made against you point. It doesn't change the fact that 1 person in this party gets to decide how many mobs you fight at once and it's the guy getting hit by those mobs.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

So you just ignoring what I said about CD's.

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No, I'm saying it doesn't matter. If you die you die.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

It's fine if the fight takes longer, I'm focused on keeping aggro, my rotation, avoiding AOE's without moving mobs too much and staying alive.

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But you're suddenly very focused on not doing any of that if more mobs join the fight?
I'm glad we're on different data centers.
Remember that every time you throw a fit to feed your ego, you're not taking it out on just the player who pulled more mobs, you're intentionally wiping the whole party. You're intentionally ruining the experience of three players.

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Originally Posted by loosie

No, I'm saying it doesn't matter. If you die you die.



But you're suddenly very focused on not doing any of that if more mobs join the fight?
I'm glad we're on different data centers.
Remember that every time you throw a fit to feed your ego, you're not taking it out on just the player who pulled more mobs, you're intentionally wiping the whole party. You're intentionally ruining the experience of three players.

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You essentially shift blame because for people not playing how you want.
Pot, meet kettle.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

You essentially shift blame because for people not playing how you want.
Pot, meet kettle.

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If you playing how you want involves punishing the other players for simply not conforming to your own idea of what correct gameplay is, I'd rather not play with that person at all. And the ToS just so happens to agree with me.

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Originally Posted by loosie

If you playing how you want involves punishing the other players for simply not conforming to your own idea of what correct gameplay is, I'd rather not play with that person at all. And the ToS just so happens to agree with me.

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Others running ahead and pulling without consent is not the correct way either.
99% of dungeons I played in as a DPS usually let the tanks pull, and 99% of dungeons I tanked in wait for me to pull. Only exceptions are if the tank dies or one person is still alive, then we go and help that person and then wait for the tank.
In fact if you are really a GNB I can accuse you of being lazy and not doing your job. Letting others bring mobs to you is some weird power trip you have.