[dev1008] About Jumping

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

You should probably read the thread before acting like an idiot.

You said you would ONLY accept a free jump, nothing else. I stated an alternative that makes everyone happy and asked you why it wouldn't work. I gave 3 limitations and asked you if you had a problem with them and what that problem was. You've been dodging ever since.

Go troll somewhere else.

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I never said your idea wouldn't work. I said, using the word my opinion, I wouldn't like it. You asked in a lot of words, why. I said to me its immersion breaking, again my opinion.

Obviously, you don't like it.

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Originally Posted by HayaHime

YES we DO NOT want jump in FFXIV!

Please Yoshi-P DON'T DO IT!

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I second that, full-heartedly! Keep XIV a game like XI has been, targeting more mature audiences.

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

I second that, full-heartedly! Keep XIV a game like XI has been, targeting more mature audiences.

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Mature and Online don't mix.

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

I second that, full-heartedly! Keep XIV a game like XI has been, targeting more mature audiences.

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Because mature people don't play games with a jump.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

I never said your idea wouldn't work. I said, using the word my opinion, I wouldn't like it. You asked in a lot of words, why. I said to me its immersion breaking, again my opinion.

Obviously, you don't like it.

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Then please tell me why? Why wouldn't you like it with those 3 limitations? I am curious how it is immersion-breaking to you. What about those 3 limitations is bad, in your opinion?

For those joining us late, this is the proposal in question:

Manual jump with the following restrictions:
-No Jumping off places that are "too high" (this avoids having to add falling damage).
-Limiting height of jump, just enough to get you up a small hill or something. (this avoids having to redesign entire areas)
-Keeping invisible walls in certain areas (this avoids people getting into places they aren't supposed to and having to redesign said areas).

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Then please tell me why? Why wouldn't you like it with those 3 limitations? I am curious how it is immersion-breaking to you. What about those 3 limitations is bad, in your opinion?

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Thank you for at least being somewhat polite. This is my opinion. But I might want to walk up to a ledge, and not jump. I want to have the choice myself. Taking the idea a few steps further to show you my perspective. What if you could only walk down a very narrow path (black shroud?). While that is deffinately a larger scale, to me it would be the same feeling. I want to freely roam without wondering which ledge, corner or hill the game will decide to let me jump or climb over.

What to you, is so bad about a free jump? You could do everything you mentioned with your restrictions. You wouldn't have to use it if you didn't want to.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Then please tell me why? Why wouldn't you like it with those 3 limitations? I am curious how it is immersion-breaking to you. What about those 3 limitations is bad, in your opinion?

For those joining us late, this is the proposal in question:

Manual jump with the following restrictions:
-No Jumping off places that are "too high" (this avoids having to add falling damage).
-Limiting height of jump, just enough to get you up a small hill or something. (this avoids having to redesign entire areas)
-Keeping invisible walls in certain areas (this avoids people getting into places they aren't supposed to and having to redesign said areas).

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To add another example. Why not make it so you can't draw your weapon unless you are within a certain range of an object you are able to use it on? That to me would be the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

To add another example. Why not make it so you can't draw your weapon unless you are within a certain range of an object you are able to use it on? That to me would be the same thing.

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Then we would have fewer eyeballs and fingers laying around everywhere. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.

I don't see any problem on letting your caracter jump... or you guys don't like it because it's "WoWish"? Cmon, some of the FFXIV comunity are getting paranoid about this "WoWish" stuff. Just because they're considering a jump feature, it doesn't mean that it will be like WoW or another MMO that let you jump.

Ok now talking a little about the feature...
They could use something like FFX-2/FFXIII kind of jump, where you approach place and your character executes an automatic jump. This feature would help a lot with all those cliffs.
Also remove the devs could remove those invisible walls on some spots of the game, it's not a game breaker, but sometimes it gets really annoying.

has anyone in this thread ACTUALLY played WoW or a kiddy nmmo?
i played wow and honestly i rarely seen ppl jump. get off that spam jumpper mith and how everyone in WoW does it. And how we only want jump to spam it.

Thats is not a good enough reason to not add jump

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

has anyone in this thread ACTUALLY played WoW or a kiddy nmmo?
i played wow and honestly i rarely seen ppl jump. get off that spam jumpper mith and how everyone in WoW does it. And how we only want jump to spam it.

Thats is not a good enough reason to not add jump

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Played wow for 3years daily.
Played xi for 6 years daily.
Can't play xiv for more than a week without getting bored =/.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

has anyone in this thread ACTUALLY played WoW or a kiddy nmmo?
i played wow and honestly i rarely seen ppl jump. get off that spam jumpper mith and how everyone in WoW does it. And how we only want jump to spam it.

Thats is not a good enough reason to not add jump

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I have, for a total of about 3.5 years, and most of my characters are not of a race that includes the word "elf", but those that are JUMP WHEN THEY WALK. Bouncy bouncy flip. Bouncy bouncy spin. Bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy--is this thing broken?--bouncy bouncy bouncy flip! There we go! Bouncy bouncy ... You get the idea.

Now, I think I should point out that this is *when they walk*, which means (these days) before level 20, or when actively moving between quest mobs. So it's far from 100% of the time, and it isn't like you can glance around any major city and see sixteen people jumping in place, but jump spamming is NOT a myth.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

Thank you for at least being somewhat polite. This is my opinion. But I might want to walk up to a ledge, and not jump. I want to have the choice myself. Taking the idea a few steps further to show you my perspective. What if you could only walk down a very narrow path (black shroud?). While that is deffinately a larger scale, to me it would be the same feeling. I want to freely roam without wondering which ledge, corner or hill the game will decide to let me jump or climb over.

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I think you're confusing what I'm suggesting.

You can do everything you've just mentioned with my proposal. I will give you examples of the only things that you wouldn't be able to do.

1. You wouldn't be able to drop of a huge cliff. Wouldn't that actually be a benefit? You wouldn't need to worry about fall damage.
2. You wouldn't be able to jump 6 feet straight in the air. If you're talking about immersion, then you should agree this is good. Basically the height of jump would be enough to get up those hills you're talking about
3. There would be places you can't go, but it wouldn't be because you couldn't jump... it would be because the developers decided they didn't want you to be able to go there. I'm talking like places that you aren't supposed to be able to access until you've completed a quest. And unless they add swimming, this would include the ocean and deep lakes as well.

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What to you, is so bad about a free jump? You could do everything you mentioned with your restrictions. You wouldn't have to use it if you didn't want to.

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Having a completely free jump would require much more redesign than my proposal. A lot more work would need to go into pathing and collision. They would also have to add fall damage. The memory strain would also be much higher than it currently is or would be with my proposal. Additionally you'd have a lot more "stuck" issues and falling through the world sort of things.

See how we can have useful conversations when we actually get civil and specific?

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

To add another example. Why not make it so you can't draw your weapon unless you are within a certain range of an object you are able to use it on? That to me would be the same thing.

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Actually while you're not prevent from drawing your weapon outside of battle, the slower movement speed is an enough penalty for preventing almost everyone from always staying in battle stance.

For jumping is the height was reasonable and the jump animation (starting to jump, distance you can travel in the air and reception on the ground) was made in a way that you move slower when jumping to go everywhere than simply by running, I'm sure it would prevent the majority of players from jumping all the time and preserve immersion for those who don't want jump.

Honestly my main problem with jump is the difference in size from the races. It's already a bit silly when lalafell are running at the same speed as everyone else but imagining them jump as high... unless the other races are really poor at jumping the lalafell are going to jump at incredible height for their size.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

has anyone in this thread ACTUALLY played WoW or a kiddy nmmo?
i played wow and honestly i rarely seen ppl jump. get off that spam jumpper mith and how everyone in WoW does it. And how we only want jump to spam it.

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Final Fantasy XI - 4 Years
World of Warcraft - 4 Years
Warhammer - 6 months
Aion - 6 months

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1. You wouldn't be able to drop of a huge cliff. Wouldn't that actually be a benefit? You wouldn't need to worry about fall damage.

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I rather like the idea of having to be careful of where and what I jump off of. I don't like the idea of not being able to walk off a ledge, or go to a certain area without something being there to block my way (not an invisible wall). The first time I loaded this game up in September, I started in LL and walked into the are where the market wards were supposed to be. I just kept walking but couldn't go any further, even though it looked like there was some type of tower ahead of me. I personally didn't enjoy that. If i can see it, and see the path to get there, at least put something in my way to stop me from getting there if the game doesn't want me there. Again, the restrictions are what I dislike.

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For jumping is the height was reasonable and the jump animation (starting to jump, distance you can travel in the air and reception on the ground) was made in a way that you move slower when jumping to go everywhere than simply by running, I'm sure it would prevent the majority of players from jumping all the time and preserve immersion for those who don't want jump.

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I agree with this.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

I rather like the idea of having to be careful of where and what I jump off of. I don't like the idea of not being able to walk off a ledge, or go to a certain area without something being there to block my way (not an invisible wall). The first time I loaded this game up in September, I started in LL and walked into the are where the market wards were supposed to be. I just kept walking but couldn't go any further, even though it looked like there was some type of tower ahead of me. I personally didn't enjoy that. If i can see it, and see the path to get there, at least put something in my way to stop me from getting there if the game doesn't want me there. Again, the restrictions are what I dislike.

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Fair enough. I don't agree, but at least I understand what it is you don't like.

i played WoW as elves I have add and didn't spam jump I explored all of the game and still very rarely saw a jumper. Even if I did. my first thought ITS A VIDEO GAME. I ignored them. Or walked off. I don't care what ppl did. its their money. again everyone against jump is hating for sake of hating.
You guys really neeed to seek professional help for this issue you have.

compaired to a spam jumper you guys hating jump are more immature.

>.> So some of you are arguing against adding a feature that could potentially add a lot to combat and exploration just because you're afraid that people may start spam jumping?

Yeah. Yeah. If we're going to limit evolution of the game just because of what people may or may not do, let's go ahead and remove all emotes because some people spam those, too.

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Originally Posted by Celyia

>.> So some of you are arguing against adding a feature that could potentially add a lot to combat and exploration just because you're afraid that people may start spam jumping?

Yeah. Yeah. If we're going to limit evolution of the game just because of what people may or may not do, let's go ahead and remove all emotes because some people spam those, too.

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I know right, It's just freaking jump, I mean honestly! Go play an early tomb raider game and say jumping has no role in exploration...

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

actually in WoW and this was even on a g4 thing a year ago. Jump in WoW got you to hidden places in the game. For perfect world international there was a quest that required you to know how to jump as they had tons of locations.

And skyrant
that whole fence thing is not even true. Fences are just for decor. Not to keep you out of something. I hated rollanberry feilds because of those fences getting around them was a pain. And more so in wings of the goddess cuz of the high lvl qudev, which kill lvl 75s easily. blocked the only route around them. if I had the choice between jumping over a fence or getting attacked by something and dieing... Ima jump over the fence.

And pretty much your whole post is one invalid rant that really just scream hating just to hate.

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Where is the hate?

I was asking for a real reason to have jumping, one that adds something to the game (again take Aion as a reference here). A legit question i think.

I was then making an argument with 3 points why jumping is not justified because something is in the way, seeing as that something has been put in the way for a reason and could you jump it i would not be put there in the first place. Rather have them remove it (or let us walk through/up fences/ledges) than adding jumping.

Now, i apologize if you feel hated by this, i really did not mean to insult you or hurt your feelings. Maybe you can elaborate why we need jumping and we could call this a discussion rather than you throwing words like hate around.

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Originally Posted by Celyia

>.> So some of you are arguing against adding a feature that could potentially add a lot to combat and exploration just because you're afraid that people may start spam jumping?

Yeah. Yeah. If we're going to limit evolution of the game just because of what people may or may not do, let's go ahead and remove all emotes because some people spam those, too.

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Exactly my points, thank you. So far i have not seen a valid reason that adds something new to the game. If there is no reason then we don't need jumping.

Which is it?

PS: Not getting around a small rock or up a ledge does not count as they have been put ther deliberately and can be removed without the need to add jumping.

I'm just sick of all the areas in FFXIV, and in FFXI, that mock me; the places you are never permitted to reach because the game doesn't believe in exploration.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

Where is the hate?

I was asking for a real reason to have jumping, one that adds something to the game (again take Aion as a reference here). A legit question i think.

I was then making an argument with 3 points why jumping is not justified because something is in the way, seeing as that something has been put in the way for a reason and could you jump it i would not be put there in the first place. Rather have them remove it (or let us walk through/up fences/ledges) than adding jumping.

Now, i apologize if you feel hated by this, i really did not mean to insult you or hurt your feelings. Maybe you can elaborate why we need jumping and we could call this a discussion rather than you throwing words like hate around.

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due to the copy pasted terrain the little ledges that "we should just go around" are about every five feet.

Jumping is definitely not needed.

If anything, something like FFXIII.

I would be happier without it, but would still play if it happen to be added.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Actually, yes there is. There are tons of things. For example, not being able to get over a knee-high ledge.

Bunny hoppers are actually not all that common in other MMOs, anyway, and even when you do see them they're super easy to ignore.

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if area collision prevents you to go over that ledge, simply adding jump will not fix this "issue". You will jump and still not be able to jump over that ledge. Sorry to say that, but thinking that adding jump just because of this is just short-minded.
In case of you didn't notice, there ARE small ledges you cannot get over AND there are ledges that are exactly at the same height as the one you cannot get over but for those you can cross/climb them.


And this is Final Fantasy, not WOW or clones alike. no Jump other than emote-auto-jump when walking on a ledge or something that could have been jumped please :/

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if area collision prevents you to go over that ledge, simply adding jump will not fix this "issue". You will jump and still not be able to jump over that ledge. Sorry to say that, but thinking that adding jump just because of this is just short-minded.
In case of you didn't notice, there ARE small ledges you cannot get over AND there are ledges that are exactly at the same height as the one you cannot get over but for those you can cross/climb them.

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Actually it would. Adding a jump would make the game calculate a 3rd cordinate instead of just 2. Height. So your characters postion would not only be constantly being checked against collision with static ground and objects, but against their height as well.

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And this is Final Fantasy, not WOW or clones alike. no Jump other than emote-auto-jump when walking on a ledge or something that could have been jumped please :/

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You're right here though. If the game was wow then it would be successful and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Please no jumping >.> I can only imagine the amount of extra lag it will genorate as everyone spams it hopping around ever zone, even something like FFXIII I feel would degrade the whole Final Fantsy Online experience. Sure it's irritating sometimes getting stuck on a rock, but lets not throw realistic design completely out of the window; you cant jump in real life, its unlikely a character in this game would rather huff it up a dangerous-footing of rocks than just go 2 feet to the left and walk/run up a gentle slope. Adding a jump in any way other than for lancer as an offensive action would be taking the wrong direction, lets keep our feet on the ground ^^

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you cant jump in real life

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The best counter argument against jumping I've seen so far.

Really, I don't care. If adding a jump brings in thousands of players to keep the game alive, then do it.

It isn't necessary, but it doesn't ruin the game.

A small gesture in gameplay to boost sales? It's a no brainer.

Would I prefer no jump? yeah... but I don't care enough to stake a larger playerbase on it.

I agree it's not needed, and that if it is included, it should be a "jump only in specific ways at specific places when prompted to" sort of a feature... Not an "everyone hop around like bunny rabbits!!!" sort of thing. Let the more cartoonish games handle the more cartoonish features.

A Dragoon like jump attack is more than welcome however. :P

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Originally Posted by SnowTiger

A Dragoon like jump attack is more than welcome however. :P

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And totally not cartoonish in any way.

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Originally Posted by LittleLala

you cant jump in real life,

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......what?

Firstly, the people who are screaming no to jumping, stop please, simple adding of in-game friction and it solves the problem of bunny hoping. You want this game to be popular ? Well then you have to accept somethings you one track minded people might not like. FFXIV is lacking in so many areas take everything you can get. I want to see a jump in this game.

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Originally Posted by LittleLala

Please no jumping >.> I can only imagine the amount of extra lag it will genorate as everyone spams it hopping around ever zone, even something like FFXIII I feel would degrade the whole Final Fantsy Online experience. Sure it's irritating sometimes getting stuck on a rock, but lets not throw realistic design completely out of the window; you cant jump in real life, its unlikely a character in this game would rather huff it up a dangerous-footing of rocks than just go 2 feet to the left and walk/run up a gentle slope. Adding a jump in any way other than for lancer as an offensive action would be taking the wrong direction, lets keep our feet on the ground ^^

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...wait what? lol

I can't believe you people expect so much realism in a game. A game where we have cat people and a race of midgets running around that supposedly have diffused into clans and have evolved certain characteristics that match their surroundings... in a span of time where they are able to remember their migration into Africa (looking at you Dunesfolk and Highlanders).

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Originally Posted by LittleLala

you cant jump in real life

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Lol... Seriously? That's your arguement? Don't implement an extra movement in game because 'I CAN'T JUMP IN REAL LIFE'!

You should really look into the reasons of why you can't jump. . .

xD

Man i completely forgot i cant jump in real life, gee.

Vote for Jump!

ps. the commuity here is such a big fail ...... no jump because you cant jump in real life......

I dont think its needed. unless it was done like FFXIII where it was for manuevering reasons not some lame attempt to not get targeted when its a game with tab targeting. Its point less when I can lock on target to you where or how you jump. So if its like FFXIII so I can jump down and up small cliffs then its a go.