FF14 player count reached the lowest point in 4 years. We lost 75% of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

You and I have very, VERY different experiences of the playerbase in FF14. I see even more toxicity just passively watching a chat on an average day than I see in WoW in a week. It's not to say nobodys Toxic in WoW. Just open Trade chat and you immediately have 30 reportable posts right away. But when most of FF14 playerbase is showing toxicity as soon as they open their metaphorical mouth it's not a good look to those of us who actually see it.

Ignoring it, or pretending it doesn't happen because most of the reasonable or, perhaps, smarter players just don't talk generally doesn't mean it isn't there.

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I've played for 12 years and can count reports I've made on one hand, and I've never been confronted by a GM. This always concerns me when another player mentions their experience has been this bad when so many of us never see that. I send random tells all the time if I see a sick glamour or some such. It's never an issue. Ever.

But I've also never touched WoW. For years it was the fear of it being vile towards me, a woman, but nowadays it's just genuinely that it doesn't look as enjoyable to me since I care way more about lore and story and Blizzard is all over the place with that. I got annoyed by it in early Overwatch (which was supposed to be an MMO) being so messy and disjointed and that's just gotten worse over the years.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Long story short - they were never going to stay, and it's actually quite impressive that a sizable portion of them stayed as long as they did. FFXIV would have had to radically and fundamentally change the game if it wanted any hope of keeping them long-term, and even then it may not have worked (while simultaneously crashing its own game). From my view, FFXIV made the right call in staying true to what makes FFXIV what it is.

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A great portion of the people complaining nonstop in these forums are past WOW players. You will very often see them also mentioning how WoW is the superior choice in every single aspect, especially class design, yet they are still here playing FF14.

Let’s just ignore players who never played WOW but also acknowledge WOW turned itself around and that FF could have learnt a thing or two and maybe learned it before all the WOW players vanished. I’d like to see some sweeping changes in this game and if those sweeping changes were also there to attempt to hold the WOW players then that in my eyes is a good thing

The notion of “purity of the 14 experience” that people seem to have is just stupid. If you have a large playerbase change you work to incorporate the new playerbase, that’s part of the evolution of a game. You don’t dig in your heels and go “put up or shut up”

Nor is the older 14 playerbase remotely unified on the idea that 14 shouldn’t change and that only WOW players wanted it changed

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Let’s just ignore players who never played WOW but also acknowledge WOW turned itself around and that FF could have learnt a thing or two and maybe learned it before all the WOW players vanished. I’d like to see some sweeping changes in this game and if those sweeping changes were also there to attempt to hold the WOW players then that in my eyes is a good thing

The notion of “purity of the 14 experience” that people seem to have is just stupid. If you have a large playerbase change you work to incorporate the new playerbase, that’s part of the evolution of a game. You don’t dig in your heels and go “put up or shut up”

Nor is the older 14 playerbase remotely unified on the idea that 14 shouldn’t change and that only WOW players wanted it changed

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The ideal XIV experience is one where only a single person hasn't unsubscribed. That way there's no worrying about toxicity or the people that had their souls irreparably poisoned from contact with WoW, and no fear of their complaints reaching the developers and ruining the flawless state of job design.

SE really just needs to just talk to the players who have quit early. There is a lot of guestimation going on here. Why not get a response from the horses mouth instead.

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Originally Posted by IttyBittyShark

you can really feel in endwalker that they hamfisted everything to try to conclude in one expansion. we were supposed to get a garlemald expansion, but apparently it is better to rush and cobble together all plot threads at once when your game is very successful. i am very bitter about this still. why rush greatness.

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Not even remotely true.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I've played for 12 years and can count reports I've made on one hand, and I've never been confronted by a GM. This always concerns me when another player mentions their experience has been this bad when so many of us never see that. I send random tells all the time if I see a sick glamour or some such. It's never an issue. Ever.

But I've also never touched WoW. For years it was the fear of it being vile towards me, a woman, but nowadays it's just genuinely that it doesn't look as enjoyable to me since I care way more about lore and story and Blizzard is all over the place with that. I got annoyed by it in early Overwatch (which was supposed to be an MMO) being so messy and disjointed and that's just gotten worse over the years.

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I have to second this. I've likewise played FFXIV on-and-off from 2015 until around 2021, then as my main MMO since then. I can still probably count on one hand the number of "toxic" people I've encountered in-game, compared to seeing it on a near-daily basis my last few years in WoW.

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Originally Posted by Exinias

Not even remotely true.

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"We planned to use 5.0 till 7.0 to end our decade-long Hydaelyn and Zodiark arc and bring everything to its climax. Originally, 6.0 was meant to focus on the Garlean Empire. However, 5.0's reception exceeded our expectations, so we decided to condense the Empire's storyline to allow for greater developments."

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https://reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion...n_taiwan_2025/
Posting a Reddit link with a translation because the actual transcript is obviously in Chinese.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

it's also unrealistic to assume players are going to stay subbed when there's very little to do for people in the end game at this time. the long term content wont be here until 7.35, and a lot of people choose to take a break between major expansions because they dont care about raids and such. WoW has also been doing better with their game so more people want to go play that atm.

we shouldn't start doomsaying when the game has a history of low activity during this time period.

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There isn't even much long term content in 7.35. Deep Dungeon with the new system is nice, but most people will do it once or a few times, then leave again. Daily society quests until you finish them, Hildi quests which are done day one, and the Monster Hunter collab, which is just two different fights.
Not trying to doomtalk about the game, but a big issue is how they drip feed the content lately. And the content that was supposed to be "the big thing" failed miserably.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

https://reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion...n_taiwan_2025/
Posting a Reddit link with a translation because the actual transcript is obviously in Chinese.

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This is the most bizarre line of thinking I think I've ever seen. "People love what we're doing and are invested in our very successful story, so we'll blitz through the conclusion in such an unsatisfying way that the big bad that we've spent 10 years hyping up is a midboss loot pinata, all so we can hurry to The Passion of the Wuk?" Where is the logic here?

The game has become formulaic, predictable and boring. The systems in place actively hurt many aspects. It goes beyond just mere stagnation. The developers go to the trouble of making these huge intricate zones and then they only serve as a backdrop to a mostly bland and forgettable story. While I did enjoy ShB/EW, I would argue that the story peaked in HW/SB.

There is no adventure, there is no danger, there is no difficulty, or real sense of community and the game rewards those willing to cheat and punishes others. Player housing actively hides and sequesters large chunks of the player base, with it's many many instances of the same set of houses and rotated houses. The party finder both doesn't go far enough [not cross datacenter] and goes too far, essentially removing the need to necessitate communication. World/DC travel minimizes sense of community and player reputation.

I continue to pay to keep a house I don't use in a game I don't enjoy because I hope one day it will be fun again. Without the bravery necessary to make sweeping changes to game systems, this game I fear will slowly fail.

If it is fun for you I am glad for you. I hope one day it is fun again for me too.

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Originally Posted by Drimn

This is the most bizarre line of thinking I think I've ever seen. "People love what we're doing and are invested in our very successful story, so we'll blitz through the conclusion in such an unsatisfying way that the big bad that we've spent 10 years hyping up is a midboss loot pinata, all so we can hurry to The Passion of the Wuk?" Where is the logic here?

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SHB was much more popular than Stormblood. Devs rightfully interpreted that to mean players preferred all the business with shards, ascian and light vs dark to all the garlemald stuff. So they used this feedback and focused on what players seemed to enjoy.

You can't please everyone of course.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

SHB was much more popular than Stormblood. Devs rightfully interpreted that to mean players preferred all the business with shards, ascian and light vs dark to all the garlemald stuff. So they used this feedback and focused on what players seemed to enjoy.

You can't please everyone of course.

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I wonder what happened during SHB that kept people at home for 3 years....

What could it POSSIBLY be..... Hm....

Recently i feel that quite outdated system of the game work deeply against me other than on mine benefit demotivating me futher to be away from the game.
I don't think something like a video game should be seen as a life accomplishment and when we see certain achievments , accesability restriction where we gotta seek discords to actually enter the new content area... I feel that i'am the issue for the game instead of being a living part of it.

The more people can actually enjoy the content the more people are willing to be part of it and give a life to the society living in a game.
Otherwise we are where we are right now where everything was supposed to be for 3-7% of playerbase who does clear everything.
Heavy duty grind is what we do daily at our jobs pushing it to be in the game does increase the burn out.

I would like to hear any poof of evidence where accesability did caused a harm towards the game itself. So far the market does prove that most living games are those what are the most accesible where most of the playerbase can enjoy lots of the content.

I want to share an quick example of FRU to unlock it you do need to clear latest tier 4th fight.
However what does happen when you are too late for the farm train on that and there is a new tier unlocked?
No one does the previous tier or is willing to learn it with you to prog it you will end up on hours over the hours in the PF.
Someone could say find a static - but then that's addtional challange where certain static would be willing to grind that as well.

Life circumstances are not equal for everyone yet access to a content should be specially if the requirements are outdated when the new tier is being realised.

There is way more examples like that in our game like tome cap etc... At this point is it even worth to mention those? Do they listen to us?

It's incredibly sad that so many people here don't understand that the best way to hurt a company that's making subpar content in their game is to simply not buy it or unsub.

Yet the playerbase would rather make posts complaining about "make better content" this, and "this game is boring" that and still keep playing instead of just simply quitting not resubbing until they fix stuff.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

I wonder what happened during SHB that kept people at home for 3 years....

What could it POSSIBLY be..... Hm....

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They're talking popularity as in satisfaction/reviews, not sheer numbers. ShB had significantly inflated population numbers because of Covid and then the WoW Exodus near the end, but it's also rated as the best expansion in practically every online survey. DT is a great example of how something can have a huge population (DT had the highest sales of any expansion) but not be rated highly. It's not just that a lot of people were playing ShB, it's that they were also shouting its praises.

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Originally Posted by BlisteringFrost

I wonder what happened during SHB that kept people at home for 3 years....

What could it POSSIBLY be..... Hm....

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Shadowbringers was released July 2019, well before the first lockdowns hit, and received critical acclaim well before its popularity boon later into the patch cycle. It's safe to assume a two year lead into each expansion, so the decision to focus less on Garlemald probably occurred over a year before the Lockdown+Exodus numbers came in.

With that established, those who compare current numbers against Lockdown+Exodus numbers would have us believe this is a fair comparison, as if external factors are consistent and equal. Which they obviously aren't. It's much more coherent to compare current numbers against StB and early patch ShB numbers. With that in perspective, thread titles like this one are clearly just bait.

gawd, I cannot wait until we finally get into the 8.0 cycle so we can move on from pretending like Dawntrail was The Worst Expansion That Has Ever Been Released In The History Of Gaming(tm) because of one character and a corny gospel song.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

It's incredibly sad that so many people here don't understand that the best way to hurt a company that's making subpar content in their game is to simply not buy it or unsub.

Yet the playerbase would rather make posts complaining about "make better content" this, and "this game is boring" that and still keep playing instead of just simply quitting not resubbing until they fix stuff.

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Ngl, I don't get this argument. Most of the people complaining are complaining because they love the game and want it to be better. You can like MANY aspects of a game, far and away enough to keep you playing, and still be critical of other aspects of it. It's not an either/or black and white issue.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

gawd, I cannot wait until we finally get into the 8.0 cycle so we can move on from pretending like Dawntrail was The Worst Expansion That Has Ever Been Released In The History Of Gaming(tm) because of one character and a corny gospel song.

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Lmao the game is boring AF with or without the story. It's literal second monitor cookie clicker content atp

Bro's hobby is complaining on a forum about a game he hates. I can respect it. At least it keeps them off the streets.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

gawd, I cannot wait until we finally get into the 8.0 cycle so we can move on from pretending like Dawntrail was The Worst Expansion That Has Ever Been Released In The History Of Gaming(tm) because of one character and a corny gospel song.

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this way we can focus on next worst expansion being worst?

It is frightening to see the game that empty. Even on popularted data centers amount of activity is very low. Influx of new players is very low and very slow, sloggish start does not helps. I can not bring any friends into game because they are facing multiple hunderds of hours grind (or extra $50) before they will be able to do any relevant content.
Please allow new people to start in latest expansion.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

It is frightening to see the game that empty. Even on popularted data centers amount of activity is very low. Influx of new players is very low and very slow, sloggish start does not helps. I can not bring any friends into game because they are facing multiple hunderds of hours grind (or extra $50) before they will be able to do any relevant content.
Please allow new people to start in latest expansion.

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What "relevant" content?
The endgame is simply the weekly raiding scene.

The problem isn't the long story up to endgame but that it's so extremely boring to do it with the state of the jobs, dungeons and trials till DT being in an atrocious state.

The story is the main selling point of this game and if people want to play that game they either know that or do it BECAUSE of the story.
I don't mind a skip personally but it's not the solution people think it is because what then? You simply are bored with the endgame.

The whole path to that needs to be interesting again with jobs being fun and content like crystal tower being properly addressed.
I would bet money, that would address a good number of issues already for new players because at least from what I have seen and felt myself by replaying the whole thing is that the story itself is fine but the whole construct around it is boring.

People act like there don't exist players who genuinely enjoy starting a game for the story.
This whole community has become so endgame obsessed nowadays or have forgotten their own journey.

The early game design needs to change from a gameplay perspective and not just giving a story skip.
I would bet, that if Ifrit wasn't a laughing stock that dies as soon as a newborn coughs at, then new players could and probably would enjoy the early game far more.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

It is frightening to see the game that empty. Even on popularted data centers amount of activity is very low. Influx of new players is very low and very slow, sloggish start does not helps. I can not bring any friends into game because they are facing multiple hunderds of hours grind (or extra $50) before they will be able to do any relevant content.
Please allow new people to start in latest expansion.

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It's like people forget that there's a whole ass story to do and your endgame friends can sync down to do duties with you... or make a new character to run it with you... specially since no content is particularly time-limited, there's really no rush to get into anything.

What content are they so desperate to do that they simply must skip everything that sets this game apart from other MMORPGs that actively ignore or delete older content, even against its own community's wishes? I feel it's more like endgame players are giving newbies the wrong idea about this game, or showing up expecting XIV to operate exactly the same way as other MMOs they've played.


The juicy part is the journey, not the destination.

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Originally Posted by Shistar

It's like people forget that there's a whole ass story to do and your endgame friends can sync down to do duties with you... or make a new character to run it with you... specially since no content is particularly time-limited, there's really no rush to get into anything.

What content are they so desperate to do that they simply must skip everything that sets this game apart from other MMORPGs that actively ignore or delete older content, even against its own community's wishes? I feel it's more like endgame players are giving newbies the wrong idea about this game, or showing up expecting XIV to operate exactly the same way as other MMOs they've played.


The juicy part is the journey, not the destination.

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It's a foreign concept for most. Helping your new friend? Hah. Syncing down to do content with them? Hah. Making a new character to go alongside them? Pfft. It's not that complicated. Why are people trying to implement skipping the whole game??

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Originally Posted by Shistar

It's like people forget that there's a whole ass story to do and your endgame friends can sync down to do duties with you... or make a new character to run it with you... specially since no content is particularly time-limited, there's really no rush to get into anything.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

It's a foreign concept for most. Helping your new friend? Hah. Syncing down to do content with them? Hah. Making a new character to go alongside them? Pfft. It's not that complicated. Why are people trying to implement skipping the whole game??

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Are we playing the same game? MSQ is ~95% "watch this cutscene by yourself" and ~5% "oh look here is a 15 Minute Dungeon/Bossfight you can play with someone else". This starts off as not so bad as there are quite a few normal over world quests in the beginning that you can share, but that becomes less and less as the game goes on. (if I remember right, it has been a hot minute since I last experienced ARR)

With how much the amount of overworld gameplay quests having been minimized over the years, there is no real "playing together", doing the story with someone else means waiting for them to finish their cutscene so you can mount up and walk to the next cutscene dispensing NPC together, until a dungeon comes in sight.

When a group of my friends last brought someone into the game (during early EW), that person was desperately hoping for more content like PotD to play together for extended periods of time, despite having a small group of people to run content with. We lost that person because they felt too isolated when playing the MSQ, even with people around.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

It's a foreign concept for most. Helping your new friend? Hah. Syncing down to do content with them? Hah. Making a new character to go alongside them? Pfft. It's not that complicated. Why are people trying to implement skipping the whole game??

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What?
Have you ever helped someone through MSQ?
It's pretty much nothing but waiting till said friend needs you for a Dungeon or Trial.
Cuz that's what I did for some friends.

Only time it was fun was when I was in DIscord with them and it was kinda like watching a playthrough.
But for 80% of it all you will just wait around till they need you for 20 minutes.

2 didn't make it till level cap and the 3 I helped and stuck around quit due to Dawntrail.
Not to mention that the time (and sub money) needed to get to cap will only increase.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

It's a foreign concept for most. Helping your new friend? Hah. Syncing down to do content with them? Hah. Making a new character to go alongside them? Pfft. It's not that complicated. Why are people trying to implement skipping the whole game??

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Did we play the same game ? If I want to help my newbie friend, the only thing I can do is wait 10 hours for them to read their visual novel up to the point that they get a dungeon or a trial unlocked. Then do it again until the next after we finished this 15 minutes piece of actual gameplay.

Even without that, the game's biggest issue for new player is ARR's story is vastly uninteresting as well as being long as hell. You have to suffer through dozens of hours of bad story only for it to start getting better at Heavensward. And even then, the structure of the MSQ is very, VERY bad. There's pretty much no interactivity with anything outside dungeons and trials, that's just an enormous visual novel but without any choice to make.

And frankly, there's no reason for content like raid and such to not be available to everyone when they have the level to do so while also advancing the story on the side. There are people who do love endgame stuff and having to go through a 300 hours of "go there and watch this cutscene" to get the right to participate in those is just garbage design nowaday.

Helping a newbie friend level up is 100% just letting them do 5 minutes of overworld stuff, watch 2 hours of cutscenes, then they need 20 minutes of actual help in their next dungeon.

And dawg. That's depressing.

Pay extra $50 or do hundreds of hours msq is one of the reason why influx of players is low. That people are against it being included(optional) for new players is baffling to me.

It's simple not easy to get into ffxiv. Early ffxiv is not good and need a heavy remake. Standards change and ffxiv is not keeping up.

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

this way we can focus on next worst expansion being worst?

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Exactly - and watch how the people who don't like whatever that expansion is about will trash it while at the same time praising DT, the same way EW gets praised around here now but was *****ped all over when it was current. This forum is just perpetually a negative echo chamber where the worst expansion ever is whichever one happens to be current.

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It is frightening to see the game that empty. Even on popularted data centers amount of activity is very low.

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What? I'm on Aether. Evening and weekend hunt trains I've done have still been averaging ~125-150 people on Greg, compared to ~200 at expansion's start. The regular dip, but nothing out of the ordinary. I still queue for very specific raids and dungeons while doing WT each week and have the same rather quick queues (a few minutes at most) I've always had. This comment just doesn't seem to match reality.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

What? I'm on Aether. Evening and weekend hunt trains I've done have still been averaging ~125-150 people on Greg, compared to ~200 at expansion's start. The regular dip, but nothing out of the ordinary. I still queue for very specific raids and dungeons while doing WT each week and have the same rather quick queues (a few minutes at most) I've always had. This comment just doesn't seem to match reality.

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How bout checking Primal and Dynamis which are pretty dead??


EDit: That being said, is the game in a bad spot? No. On the other hand, it is not in a good spot either, especially with the latest census out and how abysmal OC and FT rates are.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

How bout checking Primal and Dynamis which are pretty dead??


EDit: That being said, is the game in a bad spot? No. On the other hand, it is not in a good spot either, especially with the latest census out and how abysmal OC and FT rates are.

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Dynamis is always dead like that. The only time I ever saw it as busy as Aether was the first week or so when it was new, and people made alts to see what was up. I still have an alt there and the difference between my main's Limsa and the alt's Limsa is night and day.

But yes OC and FT failed miserably and that drove a lot of people away because they thought it would be like Eureka and/or Bozja again. I think we will have some people checking out the MH collab and the people who are into Deep Dungeon, but the amount of people won't last long at all.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

How bout checking Primal and Dynamis which are pretty dead??


EDit: That being said, is the game in a bad spot? No. On the other hand, it is not in a good spot either, especially with the latest census out and how abysmal OC and FT rates are.

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If you're talking about LuckyBancho's, to me it's also jarring that the blue graph representing the new players trying the game during Dawntrail diminishes rapidly. And yet, the amount of people who go "Psssh! Fake covid & WoW exodus padding...! We don't need 'em!!" as if losing interest from hundred thousand players that was thrown at you for free is any signs pointing toward your game is (un)healthy has been laughably depressing.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

If you're talking about LuckyBancho's, to me it's also jarring that the blue graph representing the new players trying the game during Dawntrail diminishes rapidly. And yet, the amount of people who go "Psssh! Fake covid & WoW exodus padding...! We don't need 'em!!" as if losing interest from hundred thousand players that was thrown at you for free is any signs pointing toward your game is (un)healthy has been laughably depressing.

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No no no no no don’t you know? We were never going to keep those players anyway so even attempting to do anything at all is completely futile something something or some such

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Originally Posted by Infindox

There isn't even much long term content in 7.35. Deep Dungeon with the new system is nice, but most people will do it once or a few times, then leave again.

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I wish the new deep dungeon had the Quantum system in it but it is not. The Quantum system is for a special edition of the final level 100 boss fight that you manually queue for at an NPC outside of the dungeon. It requires a premade group and you then use your tokens to specify the difficulty. The new deep dungeon in 7.35 will be the same model as all of the previous versions.

If the new system works well for this fight, they will look at adding it to the future fights. Thats the official line but they are already fully commited to Quantum, what they will do with our input is tuning. They are going to use it heavily in 8.x as a way to reduce operational costs for the game.

Consider this a preview, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

How bout checking Primal and Dynamis which are pretty dead??


EDit: That being said, is the game in a bad spot? No. On the other hand, it is not in a good spot either, especially with the latest census out and how abysmal OC and FT rates are.

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Dynamis pretty much never was alive to begin with, and the real issue with Primal there is how the DC travel system has effectively shunted so many people to Aether even if they're based on Primal. It does reveal a problem with DC travel, but not the game's population.

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If you're talking about LuckyBancho's, to me it's also jarring that the blue graph representing the new players trying the game during Dawntrail diminishes rapidly.

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Not surprising...FFXIV is over 10 years old and finished it's main story arc. How many gamers that are potentially interested in a game like FFXIV but haven't ever tried it are actually left? At some point, there just isn't really a pool of "new blood" left.

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as if losing interest from hundred thousand players that was thrown at you for free is any signs pointing toward your game is (un)healthy has been laughably depressing.

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It's just the sensible, logical approach. People who were "thrown at you for free" but aren't at all your intended audience just aren't going to stay unless you radically, fundamentally change your game...in which case, most of them will probably still leave, and you'll also have alienated a huge portion of your intended playerbase in the process. Games have intended audiences; changing your game to suit other people is what is ultimately unhealthy.

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We were never going to keep those players anyway so even attempting to do anything at all is completely futile something something or some such

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You don't have to like reality, but it doesn't make it any less real.

We have lost so many people from the peak of the exodus we are genuinly at a level of players that an absolute radical top down change of the game for the benefit of the so called “no chance of staying” that may have been to the detriment of the existing players may have actually led to us having more players right now

Abandoning the exodus players has done nothing but led to them all abandoning the game AND the game can’t even hold onto the players it abandoned the exodus players to try to keep

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I wish the new deep dungeon had the Quantum system in it but it is not. The Quantum system is for a special edition of the final level 100 boss fight that you manually queue for at an NPC outside of the dungeon. It requires a premade group and you then use your tokens to specify the difficulty. The new deep dungeon in 7.35 will be the same model as all of the previous versions.

If the new system works well for this fight, they will look at adding it to the future fights. Thats the official line but they are already fully commited to Quantum, what they will do with our input is tuning. They are going to use it heavily in 8.x as a way to reduce operational costs for the game.

Consider this a preview, nothing more.

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Yes and no, the new deep dungeon, iirc, you are able to use matched parties the whole way down to the bottom, which we have not been able to do for any of the other versions. It's not the Quantum system, but they did say if it went well, they would update the other DDs with it.