We need another Housing purge

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Originally Posted by Hamada

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I have a question for you, why do you keep repeating yourself? You literally post the same stuff, post outdated links in attempts to back yourself up so you can get ego points from it, people reply back with their opinions on it, yet you are still stubborn and feel so insecure about this topic. I feel sorry for you due to the simple fact that you care so much about a video game and about people having different opinions than you. Chill my dude. Walk outside, taste the fresh air.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I am not talking about those that were grandfathered in, the method of transferring ownership from one player to another was brought up when they announced the changes. In short if SE really paid attention to feedback they would have now about said loophole. That is more or less what they did they transferred ownership of an FC that had a plot. You make it seem like what the person did is a new thing, nah it is not.

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Thank you, that is exactly right. They act like they're some top secret agent gamer who hides in the shadows and feels good about themselves when they feel like they discover something new, but in fact, has been around for months. Maybe SE cared then, but that Youtube link was in 2016. If they truly cared now, they would've spoke up.

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Originally Posted by Zale

I have a question for you, why do you keep repeating yourself? You literally post the same stuff, post outdated links in attempts to back yourself up so you can get ego points from it, people reply back with their opinions on it, yet you are still stubborn and feel so insecure about this topic. I feel sorry for you due to the simple fact that you care so much about a video game. Chill my dude. Walk outside, taste the fresh air.

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I am only repeating myself because people are making me? I mean if they do not understand what I am saying, I am going to try a different way to make it clear. So I am trying my best to make it clear what I mean. Trying to pull "it is just a game" is not an excuse to both act in an immoral way and a way that outright break an agreement when you first make your account for the game.

Awha, you said that before, i addressed it several times. SE not listening to the NA player base is a different issue, that is no excuse to break 2.1. Yes it should be punished. People that did that knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. They did it for greed, selfish gain, there is no room for defense. It is no different then the limit break situation, despite your attempts at a semantics argument in claiming it was.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

I am only repeating myself because people are making me? I mean if they do not understand what I am saying, I am going to try a different way to make it clear. So I am trying my best to make it clear what I mean. Trying to pull "it is just a game" is not an excuse to both act in an immoral way and a way that outright break an agreement when you first make your account for the game.

Awha, you said that before, i addressed it several times. SE not listening to the NA player base is a different issue, that is no excuse to break 2.1. Yes it should be punished. People that did that knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. They did it for greed, selfish gain, there is no room for defense. It is no different then the limit break situation, despite your attempts at a semantics argument in claiming it was.

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Nah it is different from the Ungarmax issue people that used it first did everything in their power to keep it secret, the ownership loophole was brought to SE's attention before the rules event went live, yet they made the choice to ignore it. No the players should not be punished for SE lack of inaction, they should be warned that moving forward they will be taking action against those that use the loophole, but those that did should not be punished for past actions during a time SE was not enforcing the rules. Though don't you find it strange that if this was such a major issue like the Ungarmax they would also make an extremely detailed official forum response. I do not think I have seen one of those yet.

I agree that it is greedy, and I will agree that the only reason I have multiple plots is due to greed. In terms of morality given the context this seems like a morally neutral subject at best, since the law in question (SE) have not acted on it. As you said someone even mentioned how to go about doing it and this thread has yet to get an official response and it is 37 pages long. Sort of supports the claim that SE feels this is a non-issue issue. Either way please understand I am all for SE enforcing their rules, I just do not agree with punishing a player for something SE was made aware of. It is on SE for not taking action when it was brought to their attention. Warn the person in question, and make an offical post that is states their intent clear and what they will be doing as enforcement going forward. By no means should they be punished or lose their plots for taking advantage of a loophole that the community brought up in the feedback when it came the housing rules.

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Originally Posted by Zale

I have a question for you, why do you keep repeating yourself? You literally post the same stuff, post outdated links in attempts to back yourself up so you can get ego points from it, people reply back with their opinions on it, yet you are still stubborn and feel so insecure about this topic. I feel sorry for you due to the simple fact that you care so much about a video game and about people having different opinions than you. Chill my dude. Walk outside, taste the fresh air.

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It's pretty sad. He's never been able to provide any explanations to his claims other than bring up outdated rules, a chunk of the ToS that doesn't specify anything and an old translation from a stream.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

yeah someone dressed up to make it sound like it is a faked live letter rolls eyes

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Live Letter is only spotted by a subset of players. Thus it wouldn't be enough to treat it as official. A rule change NEEDS to be implemented in game. Notice how I said for most of the playerbase. Sure, it's official enough for you, but you're not most of the playerbase, and given these live letters only get a medium percentage (presumably, since there could be a lot of viewers of people who don't play XIV but just have a passing interest in it) of the playerbase viewing it, that's why I say it won't be enough. Haven't got the stats to say for definite though. Lodestone (aka launcher by default due to how the lodestone feed syncs) = it's thrown in every player's face. THAT is why I said a live letter video isn't enough. And guess what, say what you will, you will NOT sway me on this. I'm digging my heels in here.

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Originally Posted by Zale

I have a question for you, why do you keep repeating yourself? You literally post the same stuff, post outdated links in attempts to back yourself up so you can get ego points from it, people reply back with their opinions on it, yet you are still stubborn and feel so insecure about this topic. I feel sorry for you due to the simple fact that you care so much about a video game. Chill my dude. Walk outside, taste the fresh air.

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I am only repeating myself because people are making me? I mean if they do not understand what I am saying, I am going to try a different way to make it clear. So I am trying my best to make it clear what I mean. Trying to pull "it is just a game" is not an excuse to both act in an immoral way and a way that outright break an agreement when you first make your account for the game.

Awha, you said that before, i addressed it several times. SE not listening to the NA player base is a different issue, that is no excuse to break 2.1. Yes it should be punished. People that did that knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. They did it for greed, selfish gain, there is no room for defense. It is no different then the limit break situation, despite your attempts at a semantics argument in claiming it was different.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Live Letter is only spotted by a subset of players. Thus it wouldn't be enough to treat it as official. A rule change NEEDS to be implemented in game. Notice how I said for most of the playerbase. Sure, it's official enough for you, but you're not most of the playerbase, and given these live letters only get a medium percentage (presumably, since there could be a lot of viewers of people who don't play XIV but just have a passing interest in it) of the playerbase viewing it, that's why I say it won't be enough. Haven't got the stats to say for definite though. Lodestone (aka launcher by default due to how the lodestone feed syncs) = it's thrown in every player's face. THAT is why I said a live letter video isn't enough. And guess what, say what you will, you will NOT sway me on this. I'm digging my heels in here.

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That is a different issue you need to tell SE about, that is not an excuse to defend someone posting how they broke the ToS on these forums. It is also not an excuse to defend those that act selfishly with the intent of harming others. Everyone signs this agreement when they make an account:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en
This makes it VERY CLEAR you should not be finding "loopholes" or exploits in the rules to do harm to others and act in immoral ways. Despite being shown otherwise, like that video I shown, there is a player that is posting here, explaining to others to also break the ToS by telling people they should buy a FC house over personal to resell it. If you claim people can't be punished for not being babied, what is my reward for following it? It is not fair for me to hear such excuses because if i have enough sense to know why exploiting these rules are wrong, everyone should. They know it is wrong, they are scrabbling to find excuses not to be punished for it, that is all this is.

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Originally Posted by Awha

You can expect it all you want, more likely what will happen is the players will be grandfathered into a new set of rules still getting to keep their plots. Also each situation is not the same, the LB was reported to SE but no action was taken think it was because the report got lost. Regarding the housing loophole threads were riddled with comments as to how people will end up selling FC's instead of plots. People also brought up the concern regarding inactive FC's and ownership transferring. The LB issue was kept secret by those that found it, the possibility of the housing loophole was posted the day the rules were announced.

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The housing rule was so obvious but what else could SE do in case an FC leader stopped playing? It is also a common feature in MMOs that if a guild leader abandons their guild, who ever is either next up on the ladder or logs in first takes over. In SWTOR I have 4 different guilds on my alts just because the guilds quit playing.

Transferring FCs is not an exploit.

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Originally Posted by illgot

The housing rule was so obvious but what else could SE do in case an FC leader stopped playing? It is also a common feature in MMOs that if a guild leader abandons their guild, who ever is either next up on the ladder or logs in first takes over. In SWTOR I have 4 different guilds on my alts just because the guilds quit playing.

Transferring FCs is not an exploit.

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I personally have just given up on explainging that FC transferring is not and has never been exploit. Selling plots or buying plots from a seller is againt the TOS, but Transferring leadership of FC's with homes is not againt the tos. Even if the accounts involved with the transfer belong to the same person its not againt the TOS. But I like said it has become pointless to try and explain it :P

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Originally Posted by illgot

The housing rule was so obvious but what else could SE do in case an FC leader stopped playing? It is also a common feature in MMOs that if a guild leader abandons their guild, who ever is either next up on the ladder or logs in first takes over. In SWTOR I have 4 different guilds on my alts just because the guilds quit playing.

Transferring FCs is not an exploit.

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It is a loophole since I am sure the transferring ownership function was not intended to be used that way, but alas it has been. I got an extra FC plot due to inactivity. All I was saying that if SE wanted to make enforce the 1 FC per account they would have to make an official statement stating that X will no longer be tolerated and moving forward if we are able to find proof of intentionally using X as a means to gain an advantage appropriate actions will be taken.

That is all am saying. My issue how Hamada wants to retroactively punish players for a loophole the community made SE aware of. I just went with Hamada calling it an exploit because even if SE did deem it was an exploit since players are using the feature not as intended, it would still be unfair to punish players for said action retroactively.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I personally have just given up on explainging that FC transferring is not and has never been exploit. Selling plots or buying plots from a seller is againt the TOS, but Transferring leadership of FC's with homes is not againt the tos. Even if the accounts involved with the transfer belong to the same person its not againt the TOS. But I like said it has become pointless to try and explain it :P

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And we get that (or at least I do) but Oliver has admitted out right to buying (and I don't even doubt selling) houses and as YOU just even said, it against the ToS. So again I say, this is just alright to have SE turn the other way and not do anything about it? All because it supposedly "grandfather" in?

This is why I've been long done with this topic. Nobody is on the same page anymore.

Point blank - "it" admitted to doing something against ToS, maybe many at this point, but one that stands out is buying houses.
Only thing we're all on the same page with is that this is 100% SE fault for leaving these loopholes open for people to use. IMO, creating nothing but toxic behavior among the community.
Only half of us are on the same page with wanting a fix that is fair for everyone, and getting rid of these stupid loopholes. While the other half (won't say names, you know who you are) are purely commenting and making their greediness clear.

May as well let this thread fall. Regardless, SE not going to do a damn thing. Oliver get away with 22+ houses as I'm sure "it" selling them and buying more. There will be no fix on the loopholes and if there is, it'll just be some stupid band-aid fix that will allow greedy players to just find another way around their fix. That just how it going to be. SE doesn't give a damn about it player base (at least the NA community) and nor do the greedy players. May as well give it up.

/end thread

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I personally have just given up on explainging that FC transferring is not and has never been exploit. Selling plots or buying plots from a seller is againt the TOS, but Transferring leadership of FC's with homes is not againt the tos. Even if the accounts involved with the transfer belong to the same person its not againt the TOS. But I like said it has become pointless to try and explain it :P

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I think it’s more the unfairness of the situation, that someone can use an intended mechanic to hoard houses and then brag about it. It’s a weakness in the system that could be solved if se could find a way to implemented something to keep players from owning multiple fc houses on a single server without complicating matters for innocent players. Or, at least amend the rules so that intentionally hoarding so much over a short period of time can be punished. As the game was patched once to prevent this behavior, I wish we could get a statement from a mod as to where se stands on hoarding and what they’re doing now and in the future to fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

And we get that (or at least I do) but Oliver has admitted out right to buying (and I don't even doubt selling) houses and as YOU just even said, it against the ToS. So again I say, this is just alright to have SE turn the other way and not do anything about it? All because it supposedly "grandfather" in?

This is why I've been long done with this topic. Nobody is on the same page anymore.

Point blank - "it" admitted to doing something against ToS, maybe many at this point, but one that stands out is buying houses.
Only thing we're all on the same page with is that this is 100% SE fault for leaving these loopholes open for people to use. IMO, creating nothing but toxic behavior among the community.
Only half of us are on the same page with wanting a fix that is fair for everyone, and getting rid of these stupid loopholes. While the other half (won't say names, you know who you are) are purely commenting and making their greediness clear.

May as well let this thread fall. Regardless, SE not going to do a damn thing. Oliver get away with 22+ houses as I'm sure "it" selling them and buying more. There will be no fix on the loopholes and if there is, it'll just be some stupid band-aid fix that will allow greedy players to just find another way around their fix. That just how it going to be. SE doesn't give a damn about it player base (at least the NA community) and nor do the greedy players. May as well give it up.

/end thread

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I am all for people who buy or sell houses being punished. But someone admitting on the forum is not enough evidence for SE to take action. Anyone can come here and claim they bought or sold a house in game, but SE needs evidence in game that they actually committed the action. I fully understand that SE not simply acting on admittance alone is frustrating but that's how it is and needs to be so innocent people dont get caught in the middle.

While I do think it's sad that their is a current "work around" for the current rules... I think this behavior is probably more rampant on the more populated servers.

My server has a decent population but it's certainly no one of the "bigger" ones and we have houses folks refuse to buy that keep end up hitting the flat value.... which is something I was never able to do with the houses I bought (yes I have five, and I've had the five long before they changed the rules... they are also just houses... although my fc does have a house as well)

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

I think it’s more the unfairness of the situation, that someone can use an intended mechanic to hoard houses and then brag about it. It’s a weakness in the system that could be solved if se could find a way to implemented something to keep players from owning multiple fc houses on a single server without complicating matters for innocent players. Or, at least amend the rules so that intentionally hoarding so much over a short period of time can be punished. As the game was patched once to prevent this behavior, I wish we could get a statement from a mod as to where se stands on hoarding and what they’re doing now and in the future to fix the problem.

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If I am not mistaken they are working a solution that will allow alts to share the personal owned by mains. But with FC houses its trickery cause the FC Transfers exist to protect FC's when the leader takes a hike and does not pass leadership. So how do you stop people from owning multiple FC houses without punishing FC's who leaders suddenly disappear for long periods?

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I am all for people who buy or sell houses being punished. But someone admitting on the forum is not enough evidence for SE to take action. Anyone can come here and claim they bought or sold a house in game, but SE needs evidence in game that they actually committed the action. I fully understand that SE not simply acting on admittance alone is frustrating but that's how it is and needs to be so innocent people dont get caught in the middle.

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And I get that, but then why would Oliver (who is the person that owns all of them) go through the trouble of lying when there already enough heat on them for owning 22+ houses? In my honest opinion, their here to gloat about it. They feel/know they aren't going to get into trouble and that why they out right admit it. SE could very well look into the matter, they just won't. Of course, given how old these servers seem to be/code, who knows how far back data is actually kept to see big money trades.
But nah, I highly doubt Oliver is innocent at this point.

Either way, my lack of faith in SE at this point tell me not to even brother anymore. It beyond frustrating, and that coming from someone who does own a house. Whole system been **** since day one. And that been what... 4 years now? (lost count honestly). In that many years, here we are today still dealing with endless problems and things that shouldn't be happening, like loopholes, selling/buying, demo timer, etc. All this system seems to prove is that SE support the greedy side of the player base.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

And I get that, but then why would Oliver (who is the person that owns all of them) go through the trouble of lying when there already enough heat on them for owning 22+ houses? In my honest opinion, their here to gloat about it. They feel/know they aren't going to get into trouble and that why they out right admit it. SE could very well look into the matter, they just won't. Of course, given how old these servers seem to be/code, who knows how far back data is actually kept to see big money trades.
But nah, I highly doubt Oliver is innocent at this point.

Either way, my lack of faith in SE at this point tell me not to even brother anymore. It beyond frustrating, and that coming from someone who does own a house. Whole system been **** since day one. And that been what... 4 years now? (lost count honestly). In that many years, here we are today still dealing with endless problems and things that shouldn't be happening, like loopholes, selling/buying, demo timer, etc. All this system seems to prove is that SE support the greedy side of the player base.

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Cause it is funny. Either way even if SE did look into this further what would they find? That they used different accounts to transfer ownership? That is not against the ToS, and even if SE came out and said it was against the ToS it would be unfair for SE to punish players retroactively since they were told about how the system could potentially be used as a work around, and their inaction is what gave players the sense that it was okay.

A housing purge will do nothing useful on any servers at this time. Not worth it. Next SE placed decent rules in patch 4.2 regarding housing and FCs. Those allowed players that have more than one house or FC to keep it so long as they remain active. Gone but still subbed for 45 days? You lose every plot you own. It is fair to those of us here since beta that crafted and decided to buy more than one plot with the promise from SE that the plots would never be taken for any reason. The 45 day timer was needed, but taking active player plots would cross the line. Currently you can only have one house and that is fine, I would just like it is my main and all my alts (all 7 of them could use the one house).

As for FCs, this is a little different. If you join an FC there are some benefits you get get from the FC depending on how the owner/ officers run it. As I recall, late ARR/ early HW I found that I could give more to my FC with a second FC. It started with airship bring backs which were free to any member of the FC with almost no restrictions. (have to be there more than 2 weeks to get something). This reduced the cost for their crafting and gathering gear. To a lesser part it helped with melds on battle gear. As SE allowed buffs this made it easier for a smaller FC to get rank II buffs and keep two of them up daily. Then the not for sale FC crafted only rank III buffs came out. 72 hours to prime one for use. (the numbers use to be 24 hours for rank I, 48 hours for rank II and 72 hours for rank III buffs to be primed and ready for use). While the FC was small, 60 to 70 players at the time they loved the rank II and rank III buffs, so myself and the co-owner decided to start our own batch of FCs, This required making and leveling alts. We are both at the char cap for the server we are on. Then level them far enough to be useful. second I moved our main characters into the FC and we made FC points through the GC as fast as possible. Takes about a week to go from rank 1 to rank 8 in an FC but you still have to buy a plot which at cheapest will run you about 10m plus add in all the airships and the buff wheel. That second part can take months for crafting and gathering to make the gil to pay for it. After a while by early HW we had a network of FCs, each FC had 4 rank 50 airships bringing back mats for FC members and 2 times a week we would use one alt to grab all the primed buffs that FC members wanted. What happened, members got a ton of free stuff and we were able to run 2 rank 3 buffs daily. Sadly, the FC was disbanded as it went from a fun time to a lot of people just looking for free stuff without putting in any effort, cliques formed and the group feel was lost, solo players just existing without ever a word and no, being afk in the FC work shop does not count as massive effort.

So that in a nutshell is the 'why' of having more than one FC. It benefits many and though it takes plots, we tried to keep the impact on plots as light as possible. Our goal was to deliver the most fun to everyone in the FC after a long day of what ever they did. This practice is common among larger FCs and raid FCs, far more common than most know. This FC was an odd one as the co-owner and I craft for the most part and we were not a very large FC. Before you yell cheating/botting/whatever, all gil came from gear and mats sales, we both play on a PS4 and everything is done by hand. It was slow and long. For those that are new, look up the old pricing of housing in FFXIV. 120m for a large, 50m for a medium and 10m or so for a small back in the day when all this was set up and gil was super tight. There was no easy button for us, it was not cheap. It was a massive amount of work. We just happened to be very good with the MB.

What now for those that saw the FC was dissolved? We still play and we still run the FC network, making the buffs and keep the mats coming in. Nothing goes to waste FC time wise. I have considered restarting the main FC in the future but as SE seems to push more towards a solo game play feel in an MMO. I currently see no reason to reopen it. I may disband it all or just leave the game completely if SE pushes harder towards solo activities and less on making friends and working with others. FFXIV 2013 ARR is nothing like FFXIV 2018 SB in so many respects.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

And I get that, but then why would Oliver (who is the person that owns all of them) go through the trouble of lying when there already enough heat on them for owning 22+ houses?

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What am I lying about exactly?

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Originally Posted by Millen1

As for FCs, this is a little different. If you join an FC there are some benefits you get get from the FC depending on how the owner/ officers run it...

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I can relate. During early HW, I would encourage all my FC members to participate with workshop related activities and money was just pouring in for everyone. I remember selling Diadem access to a bunch of people who didn't have it unlocked. We banked a couple times on Elysium FC because it took them a while to have it unlocked. Despite originally being told to go **** ourselves, they ended up paying 2m per person just to get in. 14m straight in our pockets for literally 0 effort. Can't do this sort of stuff with a personal house lol.

Going to be honest, anyone that goes for a personal house over a FC house is leaving gil on table, which is silly. End of the day I do not understand why people are attacking the players when they really should be attacking SE to fix their housing system. Make it so apartments can be expanded upon, add an instance green house, maybe tie a workshop to GC once you reach a certain rank. Instead we have a 39 page thread witch hunting.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Cause it is funny. Either way even if SE did look into this further what would they find? That they used different accounts to transfer ownership? That is not against the ToS, and even if SE came out and said it was against the ToS it would be unfair for SE to punish players retroactively since they were told about how the system could potentially be used as a work around, and their inaction is what gave players the sense that it was okay.

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Are you even reading or you just skipping half the posts before you finally stop and decided to reply having no clue what actually being said?

I'm not even talking about transfers, I'm talking about BUYING AND SELLING. BIG god damn difference here.

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Originally Posted by Cylla

And we get that (or at least I do) but Oliver has admitted out right to buying (and I don't even doubt selling) houses and as YOU just even said, it against the ToS. So again I say, this is just alright to have SE turn the other way and not do anything about it? All because it supposedly "grandfather" in?

This is why I've been long done with this topic. Nobody is on the same page anymore.

Point blank - "it" admitted to doing something against ToS, maybe many at this point, but one that stands out is buying houses.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Cause it is funny. Either way even if SE did look into this further what would they find? That they used different accounts to transfer ownership? That is not against the ToS, and even if SE came out and said it was against the ToS it would be unfair for SE to punish players retroactively since they were told about how the system could potentially be used as a work around, and their inaction is what gave players the sense that it was okay.

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No it is not funny,do you ever read the rules before hitting ok?:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...5382&tag=forum

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In addition to the restrictions set out in the Square Enix Account Terms of Use, the following actions are not allowed while participating in the forums. With the intention of improving the experience of the game for all participants, if a post includes any of the following violations, we reserve the right to take action including, but not limited to, editing/deleting/locking/moving the content without notice, restricting your forum usage, temporarily suspending either your FINAL FANTASY XIV Account or Square Enix Account, or permanently banning either your FINAL FANTASY XIV Account or Square Enix Account.
-Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.

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This is not reddit or 4 chan, stop acting like it is.
For your last part, once again it WOULD BE FAIR to punish them because they signed this agreement:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en
They where "warned" already when they agreed to this ToS.

No it is not "OK" to break the rules because , "and their inaction is what gave players the sense that it was okay." How come I knew it wasn't ok? Because I know how to analyze all the information presented to me, not making up excuses for my own interests. You are only saying that to defend your own personal interest. Let be use your own logic to show why it does not work. I said this in a past post:(edited)
"SE not listening to the NA player base is a different issue, that is no excuse to break 2.1. Yes it should be punished. People that did that knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. They did it for greed, selfish gain, there is no room for defense. It is no different then the limit break situation, despite your attempts at a semantics argument in claiming it was different."
So does you not replying agree with me? Clearly you think everyone should know it is wrong to do, transfer FCs to different accounts to bypass a rule and selling FCs to sell the house.

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Originally Posted by OliverB

What am I lying about exactly?


I can relate. During early HW, I would encourage all my FC members to participate with workshop related activities and money was just pouring in for everyone. I remember selling Diadem access to a bunch of people who didn't have it unlocked. We banked a couple times on Elysium FC because it took them a while to have it unlocked. Despite originally being told to go ** ourselves, they ended up paying 2m per person just to get in. 14m straight in our pockets for literally 0 effort. Can't do this sort of stuff with a personal house lol.

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And here we have more examples of cat admitting breaking 3.2 of the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Awha

Going to be honest, anyone that goes for a personal house over a FC house is leaving gil on table, which is silly. End of the day I do not understand why people are attacking the players when they really should be attacking SE to fix their housing system. Make it so apartments can be expanded upon, add an instance green house, maybe tie a workshop to GC once you reach a certain rank. Instead we have a 39 page thread witch hunting.

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The only "witch hunting" is cat doing it to themselves. People are just pointing out how they keep admitting to breaking the rules and acting in immoral ways. That is all there is to it. SE did housing poorly yes, but that is not an excuse to act in this manner

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Originally Posted by Hamada

No it is not funny,do you ever read the rules before hitting ok?:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...5382&tag=forum

This is not reddit or 4 chan, stop acting like it is.
For your last part, once again it WOULD BE FAIR to punish them because they signed this agreement:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en
They where "warned" already when they agreed to this ToS.

No it is not "OK" to break the rules because , "and their inaction is what gave players the sense that it was okay." How come I knew it wasn't ok? Because I know how to analyze all the information presented to me, not making up excuses for my own interests. You are only saying that to defend your own personal interest. Let be use your own logic to show why it does not work. I said this in a past post:(edited)
"SE not listening to the NA player base is a different issue, that is no excuse to break 2.1. Yes it should be punished. People that did that knew it was wrong, and did it anyway. They did it for greed, selfish gain, there is no room for defense. It is no different then the limit break situation, despite your attempts at a semantics argument in claiming it was different."
So does you not replying agree with me? Clearly you think everyone should know it is wrong to do, transfer FCs to different accounts to bypass a rule and selling FCs to sell the house.


And here we have more examples of cat admitting breaking 3.2 of the ToS.


The only "witch hunting" is cat doing it to themselves. People are just pointing out how they keep admitting to breaking the rules and acting in immoral ways. That is all there is to it. SE did housing poorly yes, but that is not an excuse to act in this manner

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If you look at this simply from a ToS violation (which it is not but I am humoring you) then yeah you are saying SE should punish every character that has broken the ToS end of story. You cannot pick and choose, if the ToS serves as a warning and since players signed the agreement then yeah SE should take action on every infraction a player has made against the ToS no matter how trivial it seems. Do you really see SE doing that?

Leaving that aside as I and others have mentioned in many posts before, what would you do regarding FC ownership transferring due to inactivity? Also selling services for in-game currency is not against the ToS, nor is transferring ownership of an FC against the ToS. Just so happens ownership transferring happens to provide a means of bypassing one of the stipulations. Also how will SE be able to tell which transfers were done willingly to bypass and those that were done based off FC inactivity or leader leaving the FC.

You are upset about this I get it, you may personally see the action as wrong or immoral does not mean everyone else will. My man just take a breather, join the club and come to terms with the fact SE views this as a non-issue issue. Maybe 5.0 they will provide players with proper instance housing. Come on think about it this thread is 39 pages, and the only official comments made regarding housing you could find was a youtube video from an two years ago. Clearly this is not SE top priority.

Look at it this way when you see someone on the forums post someones name in a thread, what do you see? People telling the poster that they should blurr out the names because the moderators could suspend them for listing names. See, when they enforce the rules people follow them, but you really cannot come out swinging the hammer of justice years later dropping people like flies. While you may not agree with it if this go unpunished the action becomes the norm. I mean how many people do you see running around with a copyrighted name in game? Or cruising? That is against the ToS. Your mindset would get a lot of people needlessly suspended for no reason. If they want to tackle the loophole fine, but make an official post stating that X will no longer be tolerated moving forward. That is fair for everyone. Though it is not fair for you since clearly you want players to be made an example of, you are juts being petty that is all.

You may not find it funny, but I sure as hell do.

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Originally Posted by OliverB

Everything in this game/forum is against the ToS :rolleyes:

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They want FFXIV to be a single player game. :P Also rip post limit.

Everything in this game/forum is against the ToS :rolleyes:

If SE would've made housing non-limited, added a larger amount of houses and wards, etc then this game would'nt have any housing issues, housing wars, or people bypassing housing rules and all the other BS that SE has made happen. I have never seen a more flawed housing system in a MMO. It's lazy design and honestly shameful. I mean imho, houses aren't even worth it anymore. If SE actually got off their asses and improved apartments then that would help out the player base immensely. Like, adding a second floor, adding a balcony or something for Gardening (which would also mean more flower pots to use in apartments), among other things.



FFXI had housing out at the beginning of the game and it's older than FFXIV is. FFXIV took 3 YEARS since relaunch to come up with apartments (basically the FFXIV mog houses, minus the moogle). It's been 2 years now, and SE hasn't made much changes or improvements to apartments. Wtf are they doing with our sub money? Spending it on happy endings? There's a lot that can be done but they are too lazy to do much. Either get rid of the limited housing system entirely or make housing unlimited but with slight restrictions like one per world and if you want to upgrade your private into a FC house and vice versa. If players can come up with better ideas than them, then they need to get good.






/2 cents

At this point, I am grateful for even getting a house in the first place. I don't squander opportunities presented to me when the new wards were opened. I sure as heaven and hell don't take my rewards for granted when I see that I can readily earn them. I use what I earned and make the best of them as I go along.

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Originally Posted by Awha

If you look at this simply from a ToS violation (which it is not but I am humoring you) then yeah you are saying SE should punish every character that has broken the ToS end of story. You cannot pick and choose, if the ToS serves as a warning and since players signed the agreement then yeah SE should take action on every infraction a player has made against the ToS no matter how trivial it seems. Do you really see SE doing that?

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Why do you think those rules exist in the first place? What do you think the point is? Real life works the same way in case you did not know, judgment is passed based on the amount of harm that has been passed. Those rules are in place to keep a set amount of civil order and to have people act in a more civil manner then without them. Again you are repeating yourself but saying it differently and has been addressed a thousand times in this thread.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...37#post4725537
Everything else is off the subject, you will say anything to defend immoral acts apparently. I am tried of repeating myself because all you do is repeat yourself, btw:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...5382&tag=forum

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Posting a number of posts with the same content.

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You keep asking the same thing till you can trap me in a stawman, it is not going to work. It is not my fault or SE's fault some people can't tell what is right and wrong. I had a higher standard for the human race to think.
I do not find intentional disruption funny, I do not find negative impacting the community funny

Oh no.

He didn't.

Someone tell me he didn't just compare the game rules and IRL laws.

ROFLMAO

Movie pass is a good example, in their ToS they never removed the part that states you cannot see the same movie again, but since they did not enforce the rule people ignored the rule. Yet when they wanted to enforce the rule they released an official statement stating that moving forward they will be enforcing the no duplicate viewings of the same film using movie pass. Sure people complained, but overall most people understood and they understood that they could no go around punishing players for a rule they did not enforce.

Major kicker is passing of FC ownership is not even against the rules in the first place, I have been humoring you yet you still refuse to give a straight answer regarding your stance on punishing players for ToS violations. I am not against SE enforcing their ToS I am all for it, but I am against people like you asking others to be punished for SE inaction and putting the burden on the players to enforce the companies rules. Reason laws work is because they are enforced. Oddly enough you do not link the post were they mentioned that SE should make a statement regarding X that states when they will be enforcing X. Which is fair, what you want is SE to punish people because they broke the rules end of story.

Also what should we do about inactive leadership within FC's? Only way to prevent the loophole is to make it so FC leadership can no longer be transferred, that harms more people then leaving the system as is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OliverB

Oh no.

He didn't.

Someone tell me he didn't just compare the game rules and IRL laws.

ROFLMAO

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I still do not understand how someone who is so black and white with the rules is having such a hard time giving a straight answer regarding other forms of ToS violations. Oh well.

if you edit your post to bypass the character limit you are breaking the rules and should be banned, i mean you are exploiting the rules just because you can do it doesn't mean you should and that it's ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Awha

Movie pass is a good example, in their ToS they never removed the part that states you cannot see the same movie again, but since they did not enforce the rule people ignored the rule. Yet when they wanted to enforce the rule they released an official statement stating that moving forward they will be enforcing the no duplicate viewings of the same film using movie pass. Sure people complained, but overall most people understood and they understood that they could no go around punishing players for a rule they did not enforce.

Major kicker is passing of FC ownership is not even against the rules in the first place, I have been humoring you yet you still refuse to give a straight answer regarding your stance on punishing players for ToS violations. I am not against SE enforcing their ToS I am all for it, but I am against people like you asking others to be punished for SE inaction and putting the burden on the players to enforce the companies rules. Reason laws work is because they are enforced. Oddly enough you do not link the post were they mentioned that SE should make a statement regarding X that states when they will be enforcing X. Which is fair, what you want is SE to punish people because they broke the rules end of story.

Also what should we do about inactive leadership within FC's? Only way to prevent the loophole is to make it so FC leadership can no longer be transferred, that harms more people then leaving the system as is.



I still do not understand how someone who is so black and white with the rules is having such a hard time giving a straight answer regarding other forms of ToS violations. Oh well.

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I dont understand how they think Tranferring FC leadership has ever been against the rules. :confused:

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

I dont understand how they think Tranferring FC leadership has ever been against the rules. :confused:

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I do not get it either to be a 100% honest. Though either way their line of thinking when it comes to punishing people retroactively for offenses because they are rule breaks will impact the enjoyment of many players for extremely trivial things.

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Originally Posted by OliverB

snip

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*pinches noes*

Did you really have to make a signature to showcase all the estates that you have? Essentially slapping a bunch of other players in the face for not being able to get those houses? Man...the testicular fortitude on you...

...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em at this point. 'cept I'm not on Gilgamesh.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

*pinches noes*

Did you really have to make a signature to showcase all the estates that you have? Essentially slapping a bunch of other players in the face for not being able to get those houses? Man...the testicular fortitude on you...

...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em at this point. 'cept I'm not on Gilgamesh.

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I'll give you a mil if you transfer. You know, get you started.

@Hamada: I think its best to just ignore them. They have their opinion and seemingly find nothing wrong with this. In the end such greed tells us a lot about a person and all we can do is hope that this thread got at least some attention of the GM and if not then those that are also on that server may now be at least warned about it.

Ah yes, such bravery. You sure warned the GMs and my entire server about what they already knew.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alleo

@Hamada: I think its best to just ignore them. They have their opinion and seemingly find nothing wrong with this. In the end such greed tells us a lot about a person and all we can do is hope that this thread got at least some attention of the GM and if not then those that are also on that server may now be at least warned about it.

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Funny I am not greedy and I do care. I dont like the idea of people buying and selling property, nor do I agree with people owning multiple plots. As for transferring FC leadership it can be passed manaully or it will happen automatically should the FC leader be offline for too long a period, the function does not violate any rules and has existed before the temp rule change. You cant add a feature to a game then tell people its against the rules to use it. You cannot punish people who used the FC leadership transfer to get mutiple houses. Cause that would mean also punishing the ones who got multiple houses do too the automated part of the system, this is what people have being trying to get across at least in regards to the transfer of FC leadership. Punish everyone who got multiple FC houses through it during the temp rule change or punish no one.

Since it looks like Square are going to stick with the ward system and it's inherent shortages (on large servers at least) then I think it would be beneficial to reinstate the rule that says only one FC house and one personal house per world for each account.

-Will some people pay for multiple accounts? Very probably.
-Will there be an issue if a FC Leader stops logging in and all other members also have a FC house? Yes, but it's very unlikely. Plus it won't affect the FC beyond leadership not transferring if someone isn't prepared to give up their other FC house.

I feel that now people are aware they can own more than one FC house it is going to be an ongoing problem until Square takes action.
I do not think that anyone who has bought a second FC House (or more) since the rule prohibiting this was relaxed, should be grandfathered in. A short grace period to let them chose which FC house they want to keep and to remove and store furnishings should be enough.

Instanced housing and not tying workshops to housing would have prevented so much trouble and ill-feeling, too late now I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by illgot

There is nothing in the TOS stating you can not own more than one FC per account/service account.

Where are you getting this information?

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Why do you twist the point on what is going on? That is not what I am saying, you are over simplying what I am saying to something I am not.
But here is where I am getting my information:
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

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2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any unauthorized cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software or hardware designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

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There was a rule for 1 FC per account when the new wards went up. A poster here admitted to bypassing that with NEW housing purchases during that time. So for where I got that information was from this very thread.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

First use your own advice and read my posts, I have not complained but help people understand the system. Also not making excuses breaking the rules does not solve problems. I can name two instances were people tried to use a mmos ticket/report system to change things and recieved a ban for it, this game being one of the two MMO's. Lastly.. two wrongs don't make a right...logic

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Not breaking the rules? You are making excuses again. Know why things never change most of the time in the real world? Because you let silly laws, and silly rules, that are either unfair, or makes no sense, dictate what you can and cannot do. Thats why we live in a world of cowards who rather snivel and make up excuses, instead of finding like-minded individuals, rising up, and doing something about it.

Stop making excuses. If anyone wants something to change, then man up, and do something about it. I also dont have time to read the posts of defeatists like yourself, save for what I cherry pick out of to find silly suggestions such as, "Keep this thread alive to be noticed" or "Start a petition".

Guess what cupcake? Most of the time, it does not work. Why? Because it depends on what kind of change it details. The Magitek armor playing Terra's theme request for example? That was granted upon many threads posted for it because it would be easy to do, cost very little, and would make everyone happy.

The change people want with removing multiple housing from multiple potential players? Can cause backlash, will take resources to do because they would have to put in some sort of compensation, and generally, any petitions or 1000 page thread, providing the moderators let it get that far, will be completely ignored. I will not be surprised if the moderators nip this thread soon once it becomes more toxic.

Once again, you are making excuses, and using defeatist logic to propose ideas that do not, will not work.

So I say once again, man up, stop taking the defeatist passive approach that isn't going to work, find likeminded individuals and do something active that WILL get attention, such as the ideas I gave before. Otherwise, every single one of you may as well just stop complaining, and deal with it. Because the game has had this problem for years, thus showing no amount of complaining on here is going to work. Know what people didnt try to do? Man up and do what I proposed.

Oh and before you ask, I gotten a Large house I took from a guy who had multiple Larges, before the changes. How? Well lets just say, I took my own advice, did something about it, and ended up paying just the plot price for it.

Manup or Deal with it.

/golfclap