Artifact Armors!

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

LOOK CLOSELY.

Those aren't harp strings. Those are ARROWS.

ARROWS.

You can clearly see arrowheads and fletchings.

IT IS NOT A HARP.

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You wish.

/10 char

It looks a bit like this bow, but upside down...

http://www.aiondatabase.com/aionview...6&locale=en_US

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

吟遊詩人= Bard
Also, they announced 7 Jobs.
Also, they announced, that for the beginning, there will be one job for each class.
Also, the class->job correspondence is obvious for most jobs, with the arguable exception being CON and THM (which, considering the Japanese name for THM, 呪術師 = Master of Curses, is obvious also).

So we have 7 classes, and 7 confirmed jobs.
The correspondence of 6 of the classes to jobs is clear.
Leaves us with 1 job and 1 class you are in doubt about.
Since in a 1:1 constellation, there is no degree of freedom for correspondence, it logically follows that archer->bard.

The new artwork for the 7 DoW/DoM classes shows the one with a bow to have some "strange apparatus" attached to his weapon.
That "strange apparatus" is thought by many to resemble some sort of stringed instrument.
While you may claim that it doesn't really resemble a lyra ( http://www.google.com/imgres?q=lyra&...w=1229&bih=612 )
you are just refuting the veracity of a minor and ultimately irrelevant detail. As we already know: the only class left to become bard is: Well? Did you listen?

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Whos "they"?, did u go online and subscribe to the online magazine Connect!on and read what they wrote? Which dev gave the confirmed 7 jobs? was it an interview or was it some inside scoop the writer had? where's the official post in the SE forums? If you're only referring Reinhearts translated version of Marc's post, thats far from being anything close to official.

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Originally Posted by Ceons

It looks a bit like this bow, but upside down...

http://www.aiondatabase.com/aionview...6&locale=en_US

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That bow is something of an abomination... Prime example of why taking too many liberties can ruin the practicality and believability (I'm surprised that's not actually a word) of something. I really hope that bottom bit is just fluff, because if the bowstring connects to it the only place your arrows are going is down...

Its stupid because the design would be fine if it were flipped, but like that I can't figure out where the string would go without either looking ridiculous or giving your shot an unwieldy downward tilt.

This is what he is holding

Can we end the damn scythe debate? Dark Knight is NOT coming in this game just yet, it will more than likely make an appearance as a job/class but not yet. I'm really wishing that Yoshi-P had never called it "Evil" armor...

While I'm not this rant, don't you think if it were going to be DRK armor he would've named it "Emo" armor instead? :P

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Wow... you're right. There is a harp attached to the bow. That's rather interesting.

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I totally didn't even see that at first (or second) glance! Well I guess that confirms it...

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Originally Posted by ViolentDjango

GLD : Defender
PUG: Attacker
ARC: Buffer/Crowd Control
LNC: Attacker
MRD: Attacker
CON: Healer/Crowd Control
THM: Nuker

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Personally, I think it'd be more akin to this.

Yoshida already laid out his plan for the first set of jobs. He said there would be a "Defender", there would be "Attackers", there would be a "Nuker", there would be a "Healer / Crowd Control", and there would be a "Buffer / Crowd Control"

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

This is what he is holding

Can we end the damn scythe debate? Dark Knight is NOT coming in this game just yet, it will more than likely make an appearance as a job/class but not yet. I'm really wishing that Yoshi-P had never called it "Evil" armor...

While I'm not this rant, don't you think if it were going to be DRK armor he would've named it "Emo" armor instead? :P

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I respectfully disagree, the blade appears to be longer and curved much like a scythe blade. If it was what you're suggesting, the curved part of that blade is too short to be what that guy is holding. The curved part of the blade looks to be much longer but it's slightly hard to tell due to perspective.

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Originally Posted by Endemerrin

Personally, I think it'd be more akin to this.

Yoshida already laid out his plan for the first set of jobs. He said there would be a "Defender", there would be "Attackers", there would be a "Nuker", there would be a "Healer / Crowd Control", and there would be a "Buffer / Crowd Control"

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This CON vs. THM thing really bugs me.

People call THM a nuker, yet CON has all of the nukes. It just doesn't make any sense. Frankly I just wish Jobs required a set of classes to be at a certain level -- that would clear all of this up because they wouldn't have to be 1:1, they could do it the FFT way (Chemist unlocks White Mage and Black Mage, for example.)

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I respectfully disagree, the blade appears to be longer and curved much like a scythe blade. If it was what you're suggesting, the curved part of that blade is too short to be what that guy is holding. The curved part of the blade looks to be much longer but it's slightly hard to tell due to perspective.

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The problem with this is that the pole extends beyond the blade -- and that's not something scythes do. Additionally, the perspective of the blade paired with the position the character is postured in makes it unlikely that he'd be wielding a scythe.

I think more likely, he's using a halberd and the blade is exaggerated to make it look like he could place his foot on it during Jump.

That aside, his helmet looks very much like a Dragon's face.

Regardless of who's right about which jobs we get -- I'm hyped for next Friday.

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Originally Posted by ViolentDjango

This CON vs. THM thing really bugs me.

People call THM a nuker, yet CON has all of the nukes. It just doesn't make any sense. Frankly I just wish Jobs required a set of classes to be at a certain level -- that would clear all of this up because they wouldn't have to be 1:1, they could do it the FFT way (Chemist unlocks White Mage and Black Mage, for example.)

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It's understandable to be irked, but simply put it's the core abilities mixed with overall aesthetic that points me in the direction of CON/WHM and THM/BLM. Conjurer has always been portrayed as nurturing, and Thaumaturge has always had a rather foreboding atmosphere, centered around death and all.

Conjurer has Cure. Cure has been white magic in every single FF title. Ever. Having a White Mage that doesn't have cure makes no sense. However, THM has banish and dia, which are spells akin to a WHM.

On the other hand Conjurer has elemental spells, which are iconic of a Black Mage. However, THM also has dark magic, which is also a Black Mage trait.

IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if they did an overhaul (as they said they're tweaking class abilities) and swapped a lot of abilities between the two classes. I also wouldn't be surprised if the jobs themselves just gave access to said abilities the classes lack. There's ways to play it off lore-wise.

I'm sure SE has something worked out that will surprise us yet. They're just not going to have White Mage using "Sacrifices" instead "Cures", and they're not going to have Black Mage without elemental magic.

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Originally Posted by Endemerrin

It's understandable to be irked, but simply put it's the core abilities mixed with overall aesthetic that points me in the direction of CON/WHM and THM/BLM. Conjurer has always been portrayed as nurturing, and Thaumaturge has always had a rather foreboding atmosphere, centered around death and all.

Conjurer has Cure. Cure has been white magic in every single FF title. Ever. Having a White Mage that doesn't have cure makes no sense. However, THM has banish and dia, which are spells akin to a WHM.

On the other hand Conjurer has elemental spells, which are iconic of a Black Mage. However, THM also has dark magic, which is also a Black Mage trait.

IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if they did an overhaul (as they said they're tweaking class abilities) and swapped a lot of abilities between the two classes. I also wouldn't be surprised if the jobs themselves just gave access to said abilities the classes lack. There's ways to play it off lore-wise.

I'm sure SE has something worked out that will surprise us yet. They're just not going to have White Mage using "Sacrifices" instead "Cures", and they're not going to have Black Mage without elemental magic.

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I agree. We are assuming here that the CON and THM that we have currently will be that in which the jobs are built off of. This might not be a sound assumption given they have mentioned rebalancing classes and abilities in the past. In the current setup, it is not clear whether CON would be WHM or BLM. It has both spells! So I am not sure we can be too confident just yet.

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

I agree. We are assuming here that the CON and THM that we have currently will be that in which the jobs are built off of. This might not be a sound assumption given they have mentioned rebalancing classes and abilities in the past. In the current setup, it is not clear whether CON would be WHM or BLM. It has both spells! So I am not sure we can be too confident just yet.

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I guess at the end of the day I'm just really annoyed with the way they handled splitting the classes up. I think CON should be WHM and BLM and THM should be Scholar (with a nuker, but specializing in Dark/Light magic) and Oracle (a healer, but specializing in damage prevention and absorption rather than outhealing damage.)

That way you can balance a White Mage and an Oracle (Oracle reduce damage, saving the White Mage mana and enmity) as well as Black Mage and Scholar (Scholar uses Dark/Light magic to weaken magic resistance while nuking and Black Mage capitalizes by dealing heavy, solid hits.)

It seems so simple to map this stuff out in ways that would work, it gets frustrating when, understandably, the programming/direction of the game doesn't match what would easily be amazing and interesting.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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I can see that -- fold it a certain way and it could easily become a full string instrument.

I wish you guys wouldn't leave things to our imaginations -- speculation is kind of fun, but mostly its just frustrating and annoying when arguments, repetitive disputes, and trolling start to crop up.

I love the ideas and the discussion, but I think I'd enjoy a lot more getting decisive hints or at least had something confirmed. (Like at least telling us what the deal with CON/THM is at this point...)

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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Sounds cool :D Let's see how will this be when more Informations are out!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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Bowharp gooooooooooo! Wouldn't it be magical if the development team included string plucks every time you shoot an arrow?

Blink! Blink! Blink! Blunk! Blunk! Blink Blunk! Blink Blunk Blink!

Thing is, I like the concept art, but it screws over the potential of ever expanding on the armory system.

Classes will now be just an intermediate to dedicated jobs/roles, rather than a platform for people to define their own roles.

It shrinks the potential of the game. Even though the bardic-bow is actually quite an interesting design, it isn't good for the game in the long term, as it sets a precendent for confusion of the job and class dichotomy.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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Yeah, I can see it now, it looks like the top "Harp" section folds down inward into the lower arc of the bow. Perhaps the bow string integrates (somehow) and becomes another string for the harp. Hmmmmm Interesting

Jobs will be really cool, i cant wait. For those of u who dont understand em, jobs are specializations of classes. CON can be either WHM or BLM, it depends on which specialization you choose to use. You remain a CON, you just choose your role by what job you choose to take, specialize in, and enhance through use. ( i eventually hope to see a merit-like system :))

Class = solo style play
Job = party style play

Classes can equip 90% of all abilities granted you've taken the time to learn them therefore you are more "Jack of all trades than any Job could ever dream of
Jobs gain bigger boons in their area of expertise but lack in terms of being able to do "a lot of different things" and have to rely on each other (other jobs) in order to function.

Classes are not more powerful than Jobs and Jobs are certainly not more powerful that Classes, both have a check and balance concept that hopefully is flushed out wherein they will all still be wanted depending on the style of play and requirements.



EDIT: As it is now, we don't know if CON can be both a BLM and a WHM (its a 1:1 ratio, this is word straight from Yoshi-P's mouth) and as it stands now it seems to be that each job is locked to a particular class. IE: LNC becomes DRG and MAR cannot become DRG because of this. (Assumed)

I am re-rolling as a Barcher for the name only.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Class = solo style play
Job = party style play

Classes can equip 90% of all abilities granted you've taken the time to learn them therefore you are more "Jack of all trades than any Job could ever dream of
Jobs gain bigger boons in their area of expertise but lack in terms of being able to do "a lot of different things" and have to rely on each other (other jobs) in order to function.

Classes are not more powerful than Jobs and Jobs are certainly not more powerful that Classes, both have a check and balance concept that hopefully is flushed out wherein they will all still be wanted depending on the style of play and requirements.



EDIT: As it is now, we don't know if CON can be both a BLM and a WHM (its a 1:1 ratio, this is word straight from Yoshi-P's mouth) and as it stands now it seems to be that each job is locked to a particular class. IE: LNC becomes DRG and MAR cannot become DRG because of this. (Assumed)

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No,

class = weapon/learning of abilities
job = role/application of abilities


This whole class for solo, job for party is a self-mutilating step taken to shrink the potential of the armory system.

I shall now start going into crazy rant mode.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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I told ya'll...

I know what you're saying User20 but how do you know until you try the job system. I mean give it a chance first, maybe things will be better than they seem. While I like the concept of weapons transforming, I don't know how well that's going to work. I mean is archer going to switch classes/job on the fly to bard? Similar to a paradigm shift in 13 or what? If so isn't that kinda devaluing other classes who can't switch as fast? This is just an assumption though nothing more, nothing less.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

Thing is, I like the concept art, but it screws over the potential of ever expanding on the armory system.

Classes will now be just an intermediate to dedicated jobs/roles, rather than a platform for people to define their own roles.

It shrinks the potential of the game. Even though the bardic-bow is actually quite an interesting design, it isn't good for the game in the long term, as it sets a precendent for confusion of the job and class dichotomy.

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I think you're assuming that these Jobs will make the Classes obsolete. The jobs are just specializations. If you have a max level Archer and dont want to play the Bard, then you don't have to. Stay in Archer mode and DD to your hearts content. The thing is, the Classes will be more flexible with how you can set them up, and the Jobs will be restrictive. Play the Class, or play the Job, play both, the game will let you do that.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I told ya'll...

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I told ya'll first.

Anyways, the job system is self-destructive because the way they are implementing it means that the original armory system will be made redundant. A one-to-one system of class-to-job will mean that the armory system is nothing more than a pointless intermediate to the real gameplay, rather than being a system where you can create your own role.

The job system should have been implemented in a way to give definition to self-made roles, rather than just replacing them altogether. It's a self-destructive policy because it makes the entirety of the armory system almost redundant. Even www.MMORPG.com acknowledges that the Armory system is one of FFXIV's assets. And it is.

You miss some key points there User so let me fix it for you.

Class = weapon/learning of abilities and free application of most learned abilities
Job = role/strengthening of abilities that revolve around a central party aspect (tank/dd/support/healer) with a loss of abilities that do not function within the stated party aspect (ie: dd will not get healing abilities)

When you dumb it down to a few words then yes you can make it seem like the apocalypse is going to happen to the class system, but when you actually define the system then you might realize that its not as crazy as you think. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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I knew I could hear Bayohne laughing all the way from here. You're actually enjoying watching us argue, aren't you?! :D

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I told ya'll...

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You told us nothing, as we still don't know what it transforms into.

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Originally Posted by User201109011315

I told ya'll first.

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No you didn't.

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Originally Posted by Shift

I think you're assuming that these Jobs will make the Classes obsolete. The jobs are just specializations. If you have a max level Archer and dont want to play the Bard, then you don't have to. Stay in Archer mode and DD to your hearts content. The thing is, the Classes will be more flexible with how you can set them up because the Jobs will be restrictive. Play the Class, or play the Job, play both, the game will let you do that.

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It's not about making them obsolete, it's about not utilising them to their full potential.

The flexibility of the armory system works in contest with the restrictiveness of the job system, when they both should complement eachother, not fight for dominance. it's a huge step in the wrong direction. Why implement one thing and then implement something else that makes the old thing less relevant? Especially when you could simply implement the second thing to supplement the old thing.

The way they are choosing to implement job system isn't helping you define your role, it is imposing one on you. The job system should have helped you emphasise your chosen role, not force you into one. Gladiator (sword user) is now forced into becoming Paladin (tank) for the time being.

And "For the time being" is an important point, because what if you want to play Gladiator and be DPS? You can't until they bring in a job to help you. And they probably won't. Not for a very long while.

So it's not really adding flexibility. Because the flexibility depends on how fast they can churn out jobs, which isn't fast at all.

It's awful what they are doing. They are destroying the armory system. They might as well replace it entirely, considering the changes they are making.

Um, you want Dps then just stay Gladiator maybe? lol Like I said I think you are trying to make this system seem like a doomsday device or something, idk.

Me personally? I will prefer to be a LNC when in a small group (2-3) that way I can still help with the extra support that might be needed say if we don't have it due to the small size. But when I enter a dungeon or a full party I will probably switch to DRG just because the other areas that my LNC would be able to cover wouldn't be needed because we would probably have a healer and a supporter. That is how the systems will COMPLEMENT each other, not fight each other.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

You told us nothing, as we still don't know what it transforms into.



No you didn't.

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Its okay you dont have to be sad because you couldnt speculate right.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

Um, you want Dps then just stay Gladiator maybe? lol Like I said I think you are trying to make this system seem like a doomsday device or something, idk.

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It's not a doomsday device, it's just a huge mistake which compromises a lot of potential the game might otherwise have. It's fanservice gone haywire.

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Me personally? I will prefer to be a LNC when in a small group (2-3) that way I can still help with the extra support that might be needed say if we don't have it due to the small size. But when I enter a dungeon or a full party I will probably switch to DRG just because the other areas that my LNC would be able to cover wouldn't be needed because we would probably have a healer and a supporter. That is how the systems will COMPLEMENT each other, not fight each other.

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Whatever. We both know you're just going to play DRG the whole time and lancer will just be a pointless vehicle on the way to obtaining DRG. And then when more jobs become available, LNC will be even more pointless.

While you're waiting for SE to implement more jobs , you will have only a single role at your disposal.

Hey Ace, aren't you the one who called Bow = Harp + Dagger?

Props for the eyes man.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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Just as i thought! :)

So can you tell us if the instrument folds into the bow when using bardspells? :')

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

The cover image featured on Connect-On consists of job concept art. The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game. In regards to which job is what and what they equip, we'll leave that up to you and your imaginations for the time being.

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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I am curious, and you proably can't answer, but I will ask anyway. When looking at, what I assume is, the BLM one can see what looks like the casting animation used in XI. Now I heard on another forum that the devs have said that they are looking into making it possible to cast spells without drawing ones weapon. My first question is, is it true that we FINALLY will be able to cast without drawing our weapons? And my second question is, if this is true, is the pose in the picture an indication of what the animation will look like?

I am wondering because this is something I've been wanting since the day of release, and hearing rumors of it being true just made my day, I just want it confirmed if possible. :)

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Hey Ace, aren't you the one who called Bow = Harp + Dagger?

Props for the eyes man.

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Yessir although the dagger part may not be included cuz it could be the side of the bow folds up, but the dagger would be sexy as hell for close range *crosses fingers*

I think what we are seeing here in the incorporation of toggled stances.

Stance 1 - Bow Mode: Brd gains access to ranged skills

Stance 2 - Duel Wield: Brd gains access to buffs and melee attacks

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Yessir although the dagger part may not be included cuz it could be the side of the bow folds up, but the dagger would be sexy as hell for close range *crosses fingers*

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

It seems like the weapon that drew the most attention was the bow... I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

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He says it transforms, he does not say it folds.

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

My first question is, is it true that we FINALLY will be able to cast without drawing our weapons?

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Here you go: CLICK (dev post about passive casting)