FFXIVARR Lower stats for token items

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I didnt get that all the gear part, but having done 50+ rounds on a primal with no show for reward expect 3 full stacks of level 5 dark matter I'm kind of annoyed.

5 runs per armor piece isnt that bad though (10 pieces of gear, 50 runs) - depending on how short of a dungeon we are talking about and how hard of course (keeping in mind most dungeons will be longer in 2.0 and will level sync you so that you can't rape face).

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believe me i feel you on the primals. before they put in the tokens i was over 500 runs on ifrit and still didn't have all the weapons. i wanted that last weapon so i kept running it though.

my thing is yes 1 dl drop every 5 runs is not bad, but you have to remember we have 8 people in that party. that means going by % you would only get 1 dl drop every 40 runs(8 people x 5 runs). going by that % if you wanted every piece of dl(15 pieces) it'd be around 600 runs. that's why i mentioned having a high cost of tokens to get the highly coveted gear just because you would be running hundreds of times to get everything anyways.

edit: the reason i was saying have the better gear like a darklight cuirass as able to be purchased via tokens is even if you are having a crappy time getting it to drop or lotting on it when it does at least gives you something so you can say "well my luck is crap, but i am making progress towards it slowly" even if it took 300 tokens at 1 token per run.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I didnt get that all the gear part, but having done 50+ rounds on a primal with no show for reward expect 3 full stacks of level 5 dark matter I'm kind of annoyed.

5 runs per armor piece isnt that bad though (10 pieces of gear, 50 runs) - depending on how short of a dungeon we are talking about and how hard of course (keeping in mind most dungeons will be longer in 2.0 and will level sync you so that you can't rape face).

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I can understand the primals as i have done all 3 and i got every primal weapon with-in 200-300 wins. Now rare gear shouldnt be easily obtained and I believe players should put effort into it.


Now the token system could have been done differently and I mean example 1 body would cost 350 tokens 1 non body would cost 150 tokens. Yes you will still have to grind it but it dose show progress and yes players would need to put forth effort.

If they token gear is going to have lower stats then they better take the time to change the models. (remove a shoulder pad or something).

Look you are getting tokens for starter gear, mid range gear.

Rare gear should remain hard to obtain? because that is the main reason people will keep running the instance

if I run AV/CC/(insert new dungeon) 50x and obtain all I want then I will stop running the instance and this will probably be the mentality of several other people

because whats the point of doing it... I got what I wanted right

Within 6 months most endgame shells would obtain their gear and completely stop running it and then how are you going to get your gear when no one is doing it except PUGs

BTW even if the gear drops doesn't mean you will obtain it...you still have to random against people

IF SE decides to make everything easy to obtain they will need to release content every 3~6months to keep the population active... and you know SE

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

believe me i feel you on the primals. before they put in the tokens i was over 500 runs on ifrit and still didn't have all the weapons. i wanted that last weapon so i kept running it though.

my thing is yes 1 dl drop every 5 runs is not bad, but you have to remember we have 8 people in that party. that means going by % you would only get 1 dl drop every 40 runs(8 people x 5 runs). going by that % if you wanted every piece of dl(15 pieces) it'd be around 600 runs. that's why i mentioned having a high cost of tokens to get the highly coveted gear just because you would be running hundreds of times to get everything anyways.

edit: the reason i was saying have the better gear like a darklight cuirass as able to be purchased via tokens is even if you are having a crappy time getting it to drop or lotting on it when it does at least gives you something so you can say "well my luck is crap, but i am making progress towards it slowly" even if it took 300 tokens at 1 token per run.

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Yeah things shouldn't be free but you should also be able to conceptualize the light at the end the tunnel (metaphoric to each dungeon, because everyone knows mmos never end :P).

But I think we are all saying the same thing (specially now), we just want to be careful that things arent given away like candy but also not a run in the dark praying.

Awkwardly Yoshida is trying to make it another form of running in the Dark, while it appears he has removed RNG he has not. The items that drop are still randomly chosen (could get the same sword over and over) and you also have to fight over the items with your static and / or PUG.

For a static this system actually isnt that bad (people can agree on lot orders and maintain those orders through multiple runs on different days).

But for a PUG is beyond bad - really anti PUG system.

I think the simple fix is just to let the tokens buy the full gear but that it costs a lot of tokens. So while probably not wanting to run 100 times at least you know that you can get the item even if your static and ls fall apart, and you have the worst rolls in the PUG. Thats what bothers me about the primals most. Each run I do there is not a better opportunity or chance, its the same crap - at least if i KNEW I would get something then I could rationalize its worth. I'd be like hey damn 30 runs for one weapon thats a lot, but at least if all luck fails I know I'll get it.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Yeah things shouldn't be free but you should also be able to conceptualize the light at the end the tunnel (metaphoric to each dungeon, because everyone knows mmos never end :P).

But I think we are all saying the same thing (specially now), we just want to be careful that things arent given away like candy but also not a run in the dark praying.

Awkwardly Yoshida is trying to make it another form of running in the Dark, while it appears he has removed RNG he has not. The items that drop are still randomly chosen (could get the same sword over and over) and you also have to fight over the items with your static and / or PUG.

For a static this system actually isnt that bad (people can agree on lot orders and maintain those orders through multiple runs on different days).

But for a PUG is beyond bad - really anti PUG system.

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yeah, that's all i've been saying. say that you can get the gear with the downgraded stats for 25 tokens going by the same idea of one token per run. well that may be an upgrade for someone if they just want a minor upgrade or they could put forth the effort to save 250 tokens to get the high end piece they really want. it gives both options for people that actually want to get the high end piece to feel like they are making progress on that one piece they really want, but also gives the others the chance to run a few times and get a lesser version of it.

i use 25 and 250 because i feel the high end should be 10x as hard to get, but they are just random numbers. i don't care if it's 20-200, 10-100, or 50-500 as long as you could see progress towards that gear you want i'd be happy with that idea.

So...we STILL have to spam content over and over because no one is going to want the garbage one. And will the lesser stat one prevent you from holding the REAL one? If so, that's REALLY stupid.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

So...we STILL have to spam content over and over because no one is going to want the garbage one. And will the lesser stat one prevent you from holding the REAL one? If so, that's REALLY stupid.

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you want stuff now go play a single player game

welcome to the world of MMORPGs

Spamming content is how it works...

you get entry and mid-range gear

Rare gear = HARD TO OBTAIN

so bro, why you mad

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Originally Posted by Thunderz

Within 6 months most endgame shells would obtain their gear and completely stop running it and then how are you going to get your gear when no one is doing it except PUGs

IF SE decides to make everything easy to obtain they will need to release content every 3~6months to keep the population active... and you know SE

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So you're proposing we need to run something like Sky for the next 4 years? I think six months is an acceptable amount of time to design new content to replace your older gear. A year at MOST.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i use 25 and 250 because i feel the high end should be 10x as hard to get, but they are just random numbers. i don't care if it's 20-200, 10-100, or 50-500 as long as you could see progress towards that gear you want i'd be happy with that idea.

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Of course the numbers would also matter on if it was end game tiers or not. Like some of Ifrit weapons are so bad they are just for looks. While others are legitimately good. Until you pop up a tier at least. So Ifrit costs less tokens then Garuda.

Or in totorak you are completing level 30ish content so it better only take a few runs to get an item as no one is ever going to farm it for armor (some people farm it for seals but that is different). (Assuming this token system is global and not just for level 50 content)

I think an interesting thing you could add is we know Garuda has higher base stats then Ifirt weapons. Perhaps once you unlock the next tier of primals you could go back and power up your Ifrit weapon with Garuda tokens which would bring it back to a respectable scale (while not being a free upgrade). At least this way primals are on a more even turf - which is how we are used to them in other FF (minus the aspect of elements).