[dev 1021] [Suggestion] Please consider this SP loss system for Death

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

-There needs to be a discouraging penalty for people wasting other people's time.

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...Or they're not very good players and would do this either way. With your system, everyone will suffer because of one bad player. Great.

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At the moment, no one cares about dying

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Seriously?

WHO doesn't care about dying? I'm about as casual of a player as they come and I HATE dying. Having to watch while the time in my levequest ticks away while I sit there useless is more than punishment enough.

It's ridiculously easy to die in this game, many times to circumstances completely beyond your control. Such as two mobs fire off AoE TP attacks at the same time, you accidentally aggro a mob while mining when you didn't realize the mob pathed near you or you set the levequest difficulty to 2 stars because the last one was too easy at one star and you die horribly (because some levequests are cake on 3 while others are impossible on 2).

Seriously, a death penalty shouldn't be incurred until the game can avoid killing the player for dumb reasons that don't at all reflect on personal skill.

Stop trying to turn this game into Aion.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

however some of these last patches make me wonder if SE is trying to turn away it's true fan base. Just as a heads up its not the "weekend warriors".

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Weekend warriors outnumber SE's "true" fanbase 50 to 1 and their money is worth the same.

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The new MP regen was a mistake or at least they need to slow down the amount of MP per click.

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So you have to sit there longer to get the same result?

Boring ≠ challenging. When will people get this through their heads?

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I look at these post and see all the whining of its too hard...please make it easier.

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I see "It's too boring. Make it fun" and I couldn't agree more.

Copying ans pasting from another thread.

Idea for a penalty if you all really want one.

1. 75% Movement speed reduction.
2. Blood Rite effect
3. All Abilities used in weakness become 10 Minute cool-downs.
4. Anima cost returning upon death -10 Anima cost.
5. All stats reduced to 1 underweakness.
6. Enmity greatly increased when near an engaged enemy over time.

This will make zerging hard, and death warping negated.

With the blood rite effect if you have 100 hp and you attack the mob, you'll lose 10 hp. If you have 10 hp left and you attack again, boom your dead again even if the mob doesn't attack. If you're bleeding a lot and you move around, what happens, you make the injury worse.

Making cooldown last longer when weakened, will definitely keep anyone from zerging a monster. And with stats reduced to one why bother attack anyway. Just by standing near the mob it will know you're weak and will want to kill you, so after standing near it long enough it will turn towards you even if the tank has had hate for a while.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

Weekend warriors outnumber SE's "true" fanbase 50 to 1 and their money is worth the same.



So you have to sit there longer to get the same result?

Boring ≠ challenging. When will people get this through their heads?



I see "It's too boring. Make it fun" and I couldn't agree more.

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You may be right about the number of weekend warriors(I doubt it). What do you think that number will be once we have to start paying.....many people I have come across have already stated that they would not be playing once we have to pay. So who do you think they should be targeting and who do you think will pay longer?

Think the death penalty they have now is fine and should not be messed with.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I'm against it. EXP/SP loss never is a good idea.

Die as DoH while trying to deliver a local levequest and you might reconsider your idea ^^

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This is the only logical reason against exp/sp loss I've heard. Most are "I'm lazy" or "I can't stand penalty, because I worked "so hard" to get where I am" (old ranks 50s I understand if you complain, new rank50s --psh--) If they did add penalty they should think about differentiating how xp/sp is done with DoH. Specifically DoL's xp/sp should be redone, since they get the most gimped with fatigue in this game, and I'm just a part time time botanist, but I don't want my full time botanists getting jank xp/sp. DoH need that levequest rehaul.

Wile no one likes losing xp/sp on death, it is actually one of the best features on a game. I tend to find games without xp loss on death to fail in promoting a survival instinct. I understand that ppl says it is a bad thing, everything that downgrades your character is bad, but a penalty is supposed to be bad, to make you learn from your mistakes and make you value staying alive.

I agree with the original 10% from ff xi, but as long it is at least 4% i'm ok with it.

I think I remember that Star Wars actually made you lose your character if you died (at least if u were a Jedi). Was it bad? ofc yes. Did it made you think twice b4 putting yourself in danger? hell yah! I'm just saying, independently if we like it or not, the higher the penalty is, the more we value our experience. Another example is lineage 2, it had an original xp loss of 4% on death, with a 70% xp recover from special resurrection spells (only made by 2 classes of the game). When nc added multiple ways of reducing that percentage to 2%, 1% and 0,25% the pvp just downgraded exponentially, ppl stopped caring about dieing.

Heya!

The Death system right now really needs something that tells the players to be scared of death.
By far, this is the best idea I've ever seen in every thread in this forum. I also approve the tweak of Clawfury by not letting the player to earn any SP until weakness is done.
That could help the players to form better their tactics on monster killing instead of zombiekill things.

What about the durability? Do you think it has to be lowered too by a certain percentage?
As for myself, I'm neither cold or hot about that, but the main concept would be: Die fast, Repair fast.

See ya!

One minor issue with the OPs idea - Buy back possibly needs some work:
1) Buy back with Gil - Gil is worthless for "hard core" players - while this would create a gold sink in the economy it wouldn't really deter sloppy behavior, or create a feeling of danger - but it may do so for casual players that don't have quite a large bankroll
2) Buy back with Anima - Anima is near worthless for "casual" players - my anima regenerates faster than I know how to use it, hence it would have the same issue for a different player base.

You could allow either option - but that decreases the fear of death since it's easier(less costly) to pay off if you get to choose the method of payment. And if you choose one over the other then you are definitely making a decision about which player type you exact the penalty on more harshly.

I'm not sure this approach is sufficient to really create the "I'm sitting on edge of my seat" type of experience.


The most tense time I have had in this game was trying to sneak through Mor Dhona to reach a camp when I was far from an aetheryte. Dying was painful, because it meant redoing 15 minutes of carefully avoided aggro.

My problem is that I rarely get to play like this. Leves and quests are within a stone's throw of a camp or aetheryte and if anything, all the leves are set up so that you run back and forth right next to camp. None of them have you adventure way out into danger. I'd love to have something where if I died and my group couldn't raise me, it'd put me so far back that it would be very difficult for me to get back to the group, or the group might have to make a concerted effort to come and regroup.

I think any death penalty needs to be designed & coupled with an upping in difficulty of content across the board. It makes me sad that only once in 6 months have I been sitting on pins and needles praying not to die.

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

Wile no one likes losing xp/sp on death, it is actually one of the best features on a game. I tend to find games without xp loss on death to fail in promoting a survival instinct. I understand that ppl says it is a bad thing, everything that downgrades your character is bad, but a penalty is supposed to be bad, to make you learn from your mistakes and make you value staying alive.

I agree with the original 10% from ff xi, but as long it is at least 4% i'm ok with it.

I think I remember that Star Wars actually made you lose your character if you died (at least if u were a Jedi). Was it bad? ofc yes. Did it made you think twice b4 putting yourself in danger? hell yah! I'm just saying, independently if we like it or not, the higher the penalty is, the more we value our experience. Another example is lineage 2, it had an original xp loss of 4% on death, with a 70% xp recover from special resurrection spells (only made by 2 classes of the game). When nc added multiple ways of reducing that percentage to 2%, 1% and 0,25% the pvp just downgraded exponentially, ppl stopped caring about dieing.

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The problem is even in FFXI the death penalty didn't promote players to be any better. The bad players will still bad so it fails in that regard. Also when most of this games content is designed to WTF pwn you regardless of skill the harsh death penalty just flat out makes no sense. Making players stand around for 3 minutes with their hands in their pockets is within the tolerable threshold and punishment enough.