The Problem(s) with Paladin

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Not completely analogous, but Nin was a far more intensive job overall. (until utsu timers/counters showed up)

Granted, I haven't played since WotG, so I have no idea what PLD or NIN are like now.

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(o.O ) Pardon me, but I am still curious as to what situation a Paladin permits the inclusion of an extra DD instead of a White Mage. I have inquired several times now, but have not yet seen a reply.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

+1

I agree with everything, although I didn't see MP as an issue. I think MP should be regenerated by a consistent means, maybe through blocks or some sort of self buff.

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Turning Outmaneuver into a stance is the only easy-fix I can come up with for this issue. (Increase blocking rate and restore mp from blocked hits)


And for dungeons, we should take an approach similar to TERA's and eliminate timers, completely forbid class changing in the instance have areas with a massive number of tiny mobs that needs to be AoEed (some immune to magic) and areas with few very hard hitting mobs that require real tanking and some with very hard defense and all of a sudden people will want to mix things up a little instead of piling up WARs, BRDs and BLMs.

SE should hire me.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Taking Ifrit as an example, most decent speed runs can kill him with roughly 7-8 Minutes with a WAR tank, and 10-12 with a PLD tank. A WAR might take 650-700 damage average from an auto attack, and PLD might take 600-650. That 50-100 damage might build up on WAR over time, but if your taking two or three more minutes on a fight with PLD, your taking 600-650 more damage every attack in the span of that extra time which would likely nullify or fall behind any extra damage WAR might have taken..

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This is very true.
However the "faster fight = safer fight" philosophy isn't strictly based on the idea of kill it before it kills you so you take less damage.

A big part of the "faster fight = safer fight" philosophy is that going with Ifrit like above for an example.
If a fight is taking you 4-5 minutes longer than it could, then there's 4 or 5 minutes more where something can go wrong, someone gets caught in cracks or plumes or whatever. In turn that makes things alot more dangerous.

If you say Ifrit does eruptions once a minute then your looking at dodging 7 eruptions vs dodging 12. With such factors as server lag / latency which is the safer option? try and dodge 7, or try and dodge 12?

The "faster fight = safer fight" is not just relevant to tanks and healers.

A 12 minute fight is 50% longer than an 8 minute fight. I suppose in some sense you could say that makes the 8 minute one 50% safer, although it wouldnt be entirely accurate but there is some logic in it.

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Originally Posted by Eagleheart

(o.O ) Pardon me, but I am still curious as to what situation a Paladin permits the inclusion of an extra DD instead of a White Mage. I have inquired several times now, but have not yet seen a reply.

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The only situation I see in using a PLD to remove a WHM from the equation, is to run BRD/Thaum. Or some kind of secondary healer/DD/buffer.

As others have pointed out. It's not like PLD can solely heal itself, so the other members are gonna need some heals. But at least it gives the opportunity for more close range melee, to join in on the fight. Instead of Ranged Burn everything.

Not trying to be a douche, but let me fix that for you Dzian

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A 12 minute fight is 33% longer than an 8 minute fight. I suppose in some sense you could say that makes the 8 minute one 33% more safe, although it wouldnt be entirely accurate but there is some logic in it.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Not trying to be a douche, but let me fix that for you Dzian

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Actually you're only half right, but then admiteddly so was I.

A 12 minute fight is 50% longer than an 8 minute fight. Given that a 12 minute fight is 150% of an 8 minute fight.
But I will conceed that an 8 minute fight is 33% safer than a 12. so yeah thanks for that correction :)

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Actually you're only half right, but then admiteddly so was I.

A 12 minute fight is 50% longer than an 8 minute fight. Given that a 12 minute fight is 150% of an 8 minute fight.
But I will conceed that an 8 minute fight is 33% safer than a 12. so yeah thanks for that correction :)

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This is why I like playing the tank and not a DD. There's too much math involved in being a DD. As a tank, I just throw on heavy armor, grab a shield and try not to die.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

This is why I like playing the tank and not a DD. There's too much math involved in being a DD. As a tank, I just throw on heavy armor, grab a shield and try not to die.

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o.o Such is the way with any job or class in an MMO. Figuring out what your statistics do, and where to min/max. DDs tend to gravitate towards the biggest numbers just like anyone else.

A question I've wondered at is whether or not to focus on capping MND (more feasible for a PLD than capping STR sans Darklight gear in my opinion) or to take STR as far as I can with MND a secondary concern.

I'm beginning some testing on that tonight. o.o

You know reading some of this stuff made me think...

It'd be kind of nice if, in addition to VIT/DEX affecting Shield Block Damage/Shield Block Rate, STR/MND would somehow be a secondary modifier for those shield traits respectively (if SE is hellbent on keeping STR/MND the primary stats for GLD/PLD rather than, yanno, changing it to STR/VIT which would probably make more sense).

I mean, every weapon has a primary/secondary modifier. Why not shield?

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Originally Posted by Firon

War drum: This skill needs the block req removed and make it cost 500tp also make it so the skill forces pld to the top of the hate list for 10 secs for anything it hits.

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If we're going to change War Drum into a taunt ability, I'd change it to single target, really shorten the cooldown and have Cover reset its cooldown if a Covered party member is struck by the mob.

Then I'd bring back Circle Slash on a 30-45 second cooldown with decent/good damage potential.

This way PLD gains two things: 1) a taunt ability which would then allow the developers to use taunting as an encounter mechanic (which can't currently be done because PLD doesn't have one) and 2) a good way to generate AoE enmity in a way that makes sense and works well with Flash because of the comparable cooldowns.

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It'd be kind of nice if, in addition to VIT/DEX affecting Shield Block Damage/Shield Block Rate, STR/MND would somehow be a secondary modifier for those shield traits respectively

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this definitely makes sense, and I agree.