Differences between English and Japanese MSQ Dialogue (bit of a rant)

True, but it's still pretty acceptable here.

If you take a look at Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for example ... That's not localisation that's just downright censorship.

Certain western religions are one of the things for this particular case.

For anime, if you don't understand Japanese you're almost always better of using fan subs. Horrible Subs for example are pretty good but there are many other fan subs who're really great.

I will give an example of actual… I don't even know how to name this, because it's not even a mistranslation, it's nonsense. I have many questions for translation team, but our translators always were bad so I can't even say I was surprised when I saw it.

It's not for FF14, but also for FF - 15th, in fact.

Somewhere in open world between side quests there was a short random dialogue, that happen from time to time.

Japanese (translated in English literally):

Ignis: Should we go?
Noctis: Yeah.

Russian (also translated in English literally):

Ignis: Isn't it time to go?
Notic: Onwards, four-eyes.

………………………...wha? <kupo!> WHY!?

After this almost every case of different text in FF14 will look a joke really, but still.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Well what would be a reason to remove a complete sentence and replace it with "Hmph" to begin with in case with Estinien?

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Without more information I can only guess, but perhaps the localization team found it redundant to have Estinien remark on the status of the guards they'd run into twice in two consecutive lines.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Ehr lets see... decisions made due to cultural differences, or incompatible terms that cannot be directly translated.

Personally I believe that the the cultural part is bollocks, but at least I can see their reason there.

What would be a reason to make a change like that Lyna line? It doesn't seem to serve a purpose other than changing it for changes sake.

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For every example given so far, I think it's less cultural differences and more "what will make more sense for X language?" From what I've heard how FFXIV's story is handled and translated, it first starts off with an author. Once the author is done writing, all four localisation teams write their own scripts. What I imply here is that even the Japanese text may also be different to what was originally written by the author (this is all hearsay, though. Unsure if true). So while everyone follows the exact same plot, there are some small differences here and there.

So in Lyna's case, the JP localisers likely had her be a little more emotional in her scene (which matches her voice), whereas the English localisation team instead chose to have her stay strong... but eventually have her break down as she laments about being alive while those she tried to protect/save were lost (which also matches her voice. Fun fact, Lyna is voiced by Salóme Gunnarsdóttir, an actress from Iceland).

In Estiniens case... I dunno. I'll need to know what he says exactly in Japanese so I can find a way to explain why it's one way for us and another way for JP players. It's possible his "hmph" could somehow mean exactly the same thing as he says in Japanese (they are meant to be sneaking about. Talking at all could potentially alert any nearby soldiers. This is ignoring the fact they were sprinting, of course. Let's pretend that didn't happen).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Why not? What Lyna says in EN perfectly matches her body language. I may need you to specify what you mean by "clearly not localisation decisions," as everything localised is a localisation decision and has been given the okay by the higher ups (as mentioned in the link I posted in the previous page).

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I think the issue here might be that if you take that one single line out of context the translation is kinda weird, but when you consider her whole rant it fits... just fine.

And as somewhat related on the topic, I as a non-native English speaker prefer a more literal translation. Another thing as a non-native that I've noticed is that in almost all of the examples of bad and too literal translations that don't flow well and what have you, I find myself thinking: "I don't understand what the problem here is." I have to wonder how much of that is the fault of early fansubs, which could be, for the lack of a better word, quite wild at times. Clearly the solution here is to go the way of Judgement and how Sega basically translated the whole game twice. Dubs are your usual full localisation like FFXIV with dubtitles, but if you want, you can choose to use JP voices with subtitles that retain some of the Japanese flair while still being of excellent quality you've come to expect from the Yakuza series.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Anyway, I'm going to nitpick your examples. Lyna is complaining about how awful and unfair things are, but in her own way. She's spiraling into depression by stating how she's alive to mourn those who were lost, whom she failed to protect. If you have not heard this scene in English, I highly recommend you do. Spoilers, naturally.

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From the bits I've seen in your video (I hadn't watched the dub before), the character is somehow different. English Lyna seems to play tough, she replies directly to you and she sounds really pissed. Japanese one sounds more devastated than angry (albeit she's angry as well), she doesn't even reply to you when you try to help her. She just curses and half cries to herself, and looks the most fragile she's been.

Putting aside how the English voice actress sounds nothing like the Japanese one, was it really necessary to also change the script for the mere sake of changing it? The original scene was not bad for it to need a change.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

The Exarch is quoting a certain someone from his dream. Once again, spoilers.

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Oh, I see, I didn't remember that. But the thing is that the original one is not quoting anyone, as far as I know. He just sounded like he was having some sort of nightmare, he sounded disoriented. Why was it necessary to change that, other than because the translator thought it'd be cool to write their own scene?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I have no idea about Estinien, as I do not remember when it played. If all he said was "hmmph" then it's probably nothing important.

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I can only guess that it wasn't important for the translators, but would it hurt them to translate the script? OxO;

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I also don't recall when Minfillia calmly asks us X question, but depending on when it plays, chances are it could be due to character development reasons.

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I quoted that part for my friend back when I watched it, so I can paste it:

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

(Among many, many other sentences that were changed).

Translators aren't supposed to decide on character development. It's not their place, they are not the story writters. So I personally wish they could try to deliver the original story, and not their particular vision of it.

EDIT / PS: For the record, I'm not asking for super literal translations, adapting is alright. What I'd like is just for the text meaning and the character's personality to not change.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

From the bits I've seen in your video (I hadn't watched the dub before), the character is somehow different. English Lyna seems to play tough, she replies directly to you and she sounds really pissed. Japanese one sounds more devastated than angry (albeit she's angry as well), she doesn't even reply to you when you try to help her. She just curses and half cries to herself, and looks the most fragile she's been.

Putting aside how the English voice actress sounds nothing like the Japanese one, was it really necessary to also change the script for the mere sake of changing it? The original scene was not bad for it to need a change.

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And that's why I like the English Lyna more. She's a leader, she can't break down (possibly) in front of her subordinates, who likely look up to her in the worst of times (build morale, if you will). She has to be strong for them... but of course that's hard for her to do as she laments the loss of those she tried to save.

Lyna is also voiced by an Icelandic actress. The English localisation team did what FFXII did by giving the Viera their own accents.

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Oh, I see, I didn't remember that. But the thing is that the original one is not quoting anyone, as far as I know. He just sounded like he was having some sort of nightmare, he sounded disoriented. Why was it necessary to change that, other than because the translator thought it'd be cool to write their own scene?

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Does it matter? It has no plot importance and it's a neat call back.

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I can only guess that it wasn't important for the translators, but would it hurt them to translate the script? OxO;

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The script they write is original, as is the Japanese, French and German script. If I'm right about this, they're (including the JP localisation team) not directly translating the storyboard/authors work. Basically, you shouldn't say that the Japanese script is the original script. All scripts are the original. They're just slightly different so they work for the locale they're written for... assuming I'm right about this.

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I quoted that part for my friend back when I watched it, so I can paste it:

JAPANESE MINFILIA:
"U-um, are you alright? If you feel tired, maybe you should rest..." (sounds concerned and hesitant, clumsy as to not knowing what to do to help or where the problem lies).

TRANSLATION:
"You have something on your mind. What is it?" (looks quite direct, calm, and business level. A sentence that Y'shtola or any other Scion could have said).

(Among many, many other sentences that were changed).

Translators aren't supposed to decide on character development. It's not their place, they are not the story writters. So I personally wish they could try to deliver the original story, and not their particular vision of it.

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When exactly does that play, though? I would like to know the context of the scene.

I think it was Lyna's last line that may have needed a tone change to fit. "...And now they will never see it." It's...too flat? It doesn't seem to match with the mix of emotion that was building in the other lines, no payoff of teeth gritting rage or word choking anguish.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

In Estiniens case... I dunno. I'll need to know what he says exactly in Japanese so I can find a way to explain why it's one way for us and another way for JP players. It's possible his "hmph" could somehow mean exactly the same thing as he says in Japanese (they are meant to be sneaking about. Talking at all could potentially alert any nearby soldiers. This is ignoring the fact they were sprinting, of course. Let's pretend that didn't happen).

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A few of us were having this discussion earlier and someone kindly provided the translation of the JP version:

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Originally Posted by Halivel

I can't say I'm fluent, but he speaks about lookout people being dead again (suppose they saw few dead groups on their way). And yes, seeing it like "Hmph" in English was weird. XD

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It's minor, yes, but I still just find it odd that a phrase telling people to be alert since there's more corpses up ahead is omitted simply for "Hmph."

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Without more information I can only guess, but perhaps the localization team found it redundant to have Estinien remark on the status of the guards they'd run into twice in two consecutive lines.

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In light of his next spoken line, I've considered this possibility. Again, the whole thing is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. At best you could say the Japanese version makes it apparent slightly sooner that this isn't the first set of corpses they've ran into. In English, after Gaius sends his sidekicks off elsewhere, Estinien then mentions how they were killed, "same as the others." But playing with Japanese voices and reading the English lines just makes it baffling how a curt utterance is a stand-in for actual commentary. I personally wouldn't find it redundant for him to say "Be alert, more dead guards" and then mention in his next line that they've all been killed the same way as the rest. I dunno, maybe their voice actors are paid per word; so the less the better.

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Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

I'm going to pop in here and say that I have enjoyed a great deal of the localization... it isn't EASY... but they very MUCH play to the 'culture/audience' when they do it and I don't always APPRECIATE that in the least.

-They changed Haurchefant drastically. Did they do it to protect the NA audience's delicate sensibilities? For whatever reasons they had, it still sucks.
-They changed Frey. I've read the Japanese version of the DRK quests and I honestly PREFER that version of Frey far far more than the English. I had far more feelies and tears in my eyes for that Frey.
-They shorten and leave out a lot of things? I don't understand why... I play with the Japanese Language on, I just am more comfortable with it. I'm in no way fluent, just bits and pieces, but I can still tell that it's not 'all there' and it makes me wince.

I still love and adore the team. I just wish they'd... I don't know... -_- ShB has maybe been the closest yet, but there are still glaring points where I'm going 'wait... no stop... go back...'

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I have to ask...is there a english translation of the Japanese version of the DRK quests? :eek: