Black Mage Raise Ability

I'm surprised nobody's brought up the whole thaumaturge aspect for lore. WE ARE LITERALLY PRIESTS OF THE DEAD. If that doesn't scream raise ability lore wise, I don't know what does. And before you say 'well black mages aren't thaumaturges', every black mage (well, player character black mage) in this game has to have started out as a thaumaturge, therefore every black mage IS a thaumaturge. No, I'm not counting jump potions.

Also, it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a raise skill. There are other ways to utilize this. I've often considered something like a raise weakness reducer skill that would reduce the target player's weakness by maybe a quarter to a half, but ONLY WHEN CAST ON THE DEAD BODY. This even makes sense in reality, as I'm fairly certain there is some research if not some current applications already about lowering the temperature of the body for certain surgeries or injuries, and black mages ARE masters of ice magic in addition to the fire.

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Originally Posted by OoglieBooglie

I'm surprised nobody's brought up the whole thaumaturge aspect for lore. WE ARE LITERALLY PRIESTS OF THE DEAD. If that doesn't scream raise ability lore wise, I don't know what does. And before you say 'well black mages aren't thaumaturges', every black mage (well, player character black mage) in this game has to have started out as a thaumaturge, therefore every black mage IS a thaumaturge. No, I'm not counting jump potions.

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Jesus. You are aware that Yoshida didn't even want the basic 'classes' that we had in ARR that developed to 'jobs'? He himself said he wanted to discard those classes and only have the jobs but could not manage to do so. So yeah, he's wasn't able to remove old lore content. *FACEPALM* Why is everything trying to eff with the original design of the jobs that Yoshida clearly wants to stick/respect the older Final Fantasy games and FF1.

None of the other Final Fantasy games mess with the jobs that the previous ones created. It seems like an unspoken rule not to change up the core of the jobs even if your game is completely different as long as you are using the same 'characters can have jobs!' system

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Originally Posted by Magnedeus

Could Always raise them as a zombie. Sounds like black magic to me.

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72 Corpse Walk - Raise target party member in a zombified state. While zombified, healing effects do not restore HP, but instead deal damage. Upon expiring, party member once again dies. Effect can be cured if target receives the effect of Raise, Resurrection, Ascend, or Verraise, at which point they will be put in a weakened state. Duration: 60s. Cooldown: 180s. Cast time: Instant.

Like that?

stop mixing necromancy and black magic they are different things

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Originally Posted by Duelle

72 Corpse Walk - Raise target party member in a zombified state. While zombified, healing effects do not restore HP, but instead deal damage. Upon expiring, party member once again dies. Effect can be cured if target receives the effect of Raise, Resurrection, Ascend, or Verraise, at which point they will be put in a weakened state. Duration: 60s. Cooldown: 180s. Cast time: Instant.

Like that?

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This is for the future new DPS job : the Necromancer.
As a BLM i dont want any kind of raise, but maybe some other utility stuff (as magical vulnerability for instance)

thau·ma·turge
ˈTHôməˌtərj
noun
a worker of wonders and performer of miracles; a magician.

Sounds more optimistic to me than priest of the dead.

you don't really want a raise skill and a general pot adjustment to all your dmg skills by -50(+) pot do you? so why are there still some Blms who even think about a "black lore raise"? If your dps will go down for the sake of utility you will scream again and hate your new support skill – so whats the deal in this whole topic anyway?

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Originally Posted by OoglieBooglie

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I've posted in these absurd "raise suggestion threads" (an idea that I- and any Black Mage worth their salt- absolutely despise) how the FF14 lore does not at all support this idea.
Look up why Thaumaturges are "priests of the dead" in Ul'Dah.
In the aftermath of the War of the Sisters, Thaumaturges were given the task of handling funerary rites because they were the only magic experts that could prevent the dead from rising.
Their task is the opposite of raising. It's to make sure the dead never rise again.

EDIT: small edit with 1.X lore. Originally the distinction between Thaumaturge and Conjurer, I believe, had to do with the state of the natural aether they tapped into- the former utilizing Umbral aether and the latter Astral aetehr (more like active and inactive). This changed when Thaumaturge became strictly a dps class (gaining access to Astral and Umbral stances) and Conjurer got a reinforced healer identity that did not depend on the state of the natural aether at all. This was a massive retcon that left the two jobs in a strange state. You can easily argue that with their magical expertise and religious ties with the Traders, Thaumaturges still fit the bill of whom gets to oversee the funerary rites.

Note, further, that again, Thaumaturges in 1.0 prepared the dead for their journey, with all the religious implications of it. Raising the dead was probably beyond forbidden and downright unthinkable- in part due to Ul'Dah's hand in developing and employing the Traders' Spurn during the War of the Sisters, and in part due to the religious implications. Funerary preparations were a business of wealth, and the wealthier elite of the Gilded City would pay well to ensure no expense was spared in their rites of departure to fall onto the Traders' better graces.
Indeed, the syndicate member Dewlala, who heads the Arrzaneth Ossuary (the temple of Thal), made much of her fortune through such rites, hence her strong ties to Thaumaturgy (she's a Thaumaturge) and Alchemy (she has ties to the Alchemist faction that made the poison which placed the sultana in her slumber... I forge the name of the organization).

EDIT 2: I may as well add that in 1.0, there were no jobs and thus, Thaumaturge had no connection to Black Magic (latter predates the former by millennia). In fact, Thaumaturgy was not only Umbral-aspected, it had a strong "biologic" (for the lack of a better word) component to it (similar to arcanima, actually). You can still see this in some of the old 2.X spells- Lethargy, Sleep, the slow in the ice spells- these induce a state of torpor biologically. This has everything to do with their previous identity of preparing the dead (aka: literally forcing states closer to "death" on living things, tampering with their life force). The stances (AF/UI) were linked to communing with the Traders in order to induce a trance in which the Thaumaturges could use their magic without harming themselves. Ofc, with the retcon, there's no actual reason why Thaumaturges are more destructive-focused and favor the elements of Fire/Ice/Lightning... so the lore justifications are a bit weaker.
(Still, no raise anywhere here, no matter how you look at it).

This has been your Thaumaturge lore insider by Galveira Vorfeed ;)

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Originally Posted by Marianno

BLM is meant to blow stuff up.

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This.

I don't see any benefit from having another res.

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

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Can I like just copy this and slam it on threads like these? You basically nailed the shite out of that hammer with these silly players QQing about BLM raises