No More Classes?

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I just had an epiphany and it may not be accurate but may be the route SE is heading. The current base classes are sufficient with cross class abilities etc. Since the new jobs are 'classless' and for the fact the jobs will require any class to be at level 30. Could it be that the new jobs will have a soul that you equip to any of the existing base classes? So you could have various combinations like you had in FFXI?

For example and this is just for discussion purposes.

Could have a DRK/THM or DRK/MRD and the base class which will determine base class abilities

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I highly doubt that's how it'll happen. I honestly don't even think we'll have a Job Crystal with these classes as unequipping a Job Crystal turned you into the Previous Class, you can't unequip the Job Crystal as these new Jobs as they have no class to break back down to. So, either we'll have a Crystal we can't unequip, or we won't have one at all.

As for balancing your idea of DRK/THM and DRK/MRD, FF14 as a whole is a lot more balanced and has specific roles for each Class that FFXI didn't have. Doing that would go against that idea

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

I highly doubt that's how it'll happen. I honestly don't even think we'll have a Job Crystal with these classes as unequipping a Job Crystal turned you into the Previous Class, you can't unequip the Job Crystal as these new Jobs as they have no class to break back down to. So, either we'll have a Crystal we can't unequip, or we won't have one at all.

As for balancing your idea of DRK/THM and DRK/MRD, FF14 as a whole is a lot more balanced and has specific roles for each Class that FFXI didn't have. Doing that would go against that idea

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While I agree with you, the Job Crystal is what changes the specific roles. For examble take the Arcanist Jobs, Arcanist by itself is a dps class, attach a SCH job crystal and now you're a healer. So if you are a THM for example and you equip the DK crystal, you will become a tank. The crystal itself can have a base HP that it starts off with etc. It's not entirely a stretch.

Without the crystal they are mere classes rather than a job. To me the crystal is what separates the two.

It's all hypothetical and the expansion will define it all.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

While I agree with you, the Job Crystal is what changes the specific roles. For examble take the Arcanist Jobs, Arcanist by itself is a dps class, attach a SCH job crystal and now you're a healer. So if you are a THM for example and you equip the DK crystal, you will become a tank. The crystal itself can have a base HP that it starts off with etc. It's not entirely a stretch.

Without the crystal they are mere classes rather than a job. To me the crystal is what separates the two.

It's all hypothetical and the expansion will define it all.

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though THM (in your example) has absolutely no tank options, where ACN has a bunch of supportive healing options (physics, E4E, virus, raise).

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

While I agree with you, the Job Crystal is what changes the specific roles. For examble take the Arcanist Jobs, Arcanist by itself is a dps class, attach a SCH job crystal and now you're a healer. So if you are a THM for example and you equip the DK crystal, you will become a tank. The crystal itself can have a base HP that it starts off with etc. It's not entirely a stretch.

Without the crystal they are mere classes rather than a job. To me the crystal is what separates the two.

It's all hypothetical and the expansion will define it all.

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They've also said they aren't considered Jobs because they don't have a base class, and they're called "extra jobs". So if anything, they'll just be like a class with higher stats to make up for not having the stats from a Job Crystal.

I don't think classes are being thrown out all together.. why 3.0 jobs don't have classes, imo, is based out of necessity

1. level increase to 60
2. 3 new Jobs being introduced simultaneously

In the PAX interview YoshiP mentioned how difficult doing 3 new jobs at once was for the battle team. I think they have gone this 'no class' route for these 3.0 jobs specifically to ease the balancing issues that arise from creating new classes.

If these 3 had base classes, then the battle team would have had to QA Test all 3 classes as well as the 3 jobs. This task becomes exponentially more difficult when you consider that classes have access to ALL cross-class abilities.. I think they did it this way just to make their job easier, and to get the new jobs balanced and ready for 3.0 launch on time.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

though THM (in your example) has absolutely no tank options, where ACN has a bunch of supportive healing options (physics, E4E, virus, raise).

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The only supportive healing options are Raise and Physicks. Other classes can do debuffs like your referring to.

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Originally Posted by Cariborne

They've also said they aren't considered Jobs because they don't have a base class, and they're called "extra jobs". So if anything, they'll just be like a class with higher stats to make up for not having the stats from a Job Crystal.

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Again without the crystal, you can call them a Job but in all actuality there is nothing to distinguish them from classes.

The requirements are that you have to have a class to 30 to even unlock. If they don't have a crystal and it is just a weapon why even bother calling them a 'Job' and not just call them a class.

Let's be honest 'Extra Job' is just silly. It is just a way to define why they are doing something differently. If they called them a class, then everyone would assume that they could upgrade them later on. If they called them a 'Job' everyone would assume there is a base class. But by calling them an "Extra Job" is really just a way to appease the masses and keep it simple on their end without having to go into any further explanation.

This guy explains exactly that.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

I don't think classes are being thrown out all together.. why 3.0 jobs don't have classes, imo, is based out of necessity

1. level increase to 60
2. 3 new Jobs being introduced simultaneously

In the PAX interview YoshiP mentioned how difficult doing 3 new jobs at once was for the battle team. I think they have gone this 'no class' route for these 3.0 jobs specifically to ease the balancing issues that arise from creating new classes.

If these 3 had base classes, then the battle team would have had to QA Test all 3 classes as well as the 3 jobs. This task becomes exponentially more difficult when you consider that classes have access to ALL cross-class abilities.. I think they did it this way just to make their job easier, and to get the new jobs balanced and ready for 3.0 launch on time.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

The only supportive healing options are Raise and Physicks. Other classes can do debuffs like your referring to.

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I know no other class which can drastically reduce incoming damage like that. Bard had "10% less damage" RoD in 2.0 but got nerfed to current version so it's not in the question.

Virus and E4E are supportive skills designed for a healer. (as there is no debuffing job in FFxiv)

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Virus and E4E are supportive skills designed for a healer. (as there is no debuffing job in FFxiv)

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Monk - Dragon Kick, Warrior - Storm's Path, Paladin - Rage of Halone, and Black Mage - Apocatastasis all support buffing or debuffing which affect healing. Also if you look at SMN it fits more with their toolkit as their dots, etc debuff as well as inflict damage. I wouldn't say those skills are healer specific.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Monk - Dragon Kick, Warrior - Storm's Path, Paladin - Rage of Halone, and Black Mage - Apocatastasis all support buffing or debuffing which affect healing. Also if you look at SMN it fits more with their toolkit as their dots, etc debuff as well as inflict damage. I wouldn't say those skills are healer specific.

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Dragon Kick increases the damage a Monk does. Not really a support skill. Storm's Path and Rage of Halone lower the damage the enemy does with Melee Attacks. Not really a support skill, more a defensive ability for the tank. Apoc is a Support skill, I'll give you that one. Eye for an Eye and Virus are also Support skills, and really if you can have Eye for an Eye you should have it. Virus should be with the Scholar and the summoner though, unless you're missing one or doing dungeons without one.

As for the Extra Job, they're called that because they aren't the usual Job, and they dont use a Class. Square said they messed up on Classes, so they'd probably move away from them.

I wonder if they are looking to phase out cross class skills (to allieviate the pressure on control pad users and create more job specialisation) for instance if you take the 5 cross class abilities most jobs all use the same ones.

With the level cap and new abilities being added, you could easily replace things like blood for blood and invigorate for MNK with their own new skills, currently we can equip 5 skills from 2 different classes and in most cases they are useless, if they expanded the amount we can equip post 50 it would just be wasting slots since to take MNK for instance, mercy stroke, blood for blood and invigorate are the major necessary ones to perform effectively. the other 2 are likely to be either fracture which is a big tp drain for very marginal use and defensive abilities, keen flurry, foresight and bloodbath, mnk would never use impulse drive or skull sunder and is also not going to waste a gcd on feint. Thus expanding cross class abilities would be useless past its current offerings and key abilities could be replaced with new job specific ones.

They could do this by putting in a quest that would reward an upgraded job stone (much like when you first get the job stone at 30) which removed the class from using cross class skills, thus allowing the standard 1-30 class and 30-50 job to remain unchanged.

With the new upcoming jobs they could begin with the updated stone thus removing any cross class skills attributed to them which would ease up tweaking and balance issues with them and other cross classes that they would share.