Dragoon: top dps and easiest melee class by far ?

DRG didn't become top DPS even with these buffs. Now, if you also account in for the BRD-synergy post-buffage, they are likely pushing a bit past MNKs in combined DPS, but it's not by a lot and if you only do a job-for-job comparison, MNK is still ahead of the DRG. Considering DRG brings zero utility to the raid (5% Mantra, yay!) and the fact MNK brings a 20% Mantra and also a super important INT-debuff (The Final Coil of Dragon Kick called!), I fail to see the issue anyone might or might not have.

Sure, the NIN nerf was uncalled for, but NIN DPS didn't fall below that of pre-buff DRG, with NIN also bringing Goad and Trick Attack. Goad can shorten some TP songs which boosts a BRD's DPS and also creates more room for Foe Requiem, which boosts caster DPS. Add on top of this, Trick Attack, and NIN is still in the business.

So, if we consider DMG/utility, seems to me like the three melee DPS are finally somewhat balanced. The arguements about positionals are stupid because a good DRG will still hit any positionals, same as any other good melee DPS. They just made goon less punishing and actually viable. Nearly seems like some people in the community want the DRG to not be viable so we'd have a laughing stock.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

There is so much confusion in this thread. DRG is only easier now if you have no interest in maximizing your DPS. If you want to maximize DPS, DRG is functionally identically to what it was pre-patch.

You still have to hit your heavy thrust from the side, and you still have to hit an ability from the back (swap ID for CT). If you think the job is easier, you're probably not the type of player who tries to hit their DPS ceiling.

Every single job is "easy" if you aren't looking to maximize DPS potential.

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Give that man a f***ing medal. Someone.

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Originally Posted by Pots_Talos

I think my biggest concern is, where does this stop? Will people start complaining that Monk positionals are too demanding and SE gets rid of those next?

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I actually like how positional Monks are. Makes me feel more like a pro when landing so many top damage hits in a row (Even though Coil scares me). Admittedly though, bosses/enemies with no backs to them, kind of depressing to fight.

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Originally Posted by Whiston

This is quite true also.

I spent the last 2 hours on a dummy with the new buffs.
The absolute maximum difference in damage I saw from a flank only rotation was 8 dps.
The minimum difference was actually an increase of 1 dps over 4 minutes due to RNG crits.
I averaged it to be about a 4 dps loss. Completely unsubstantial. In a fight, this would only be exacerbated by the fact you don't need to move to rear in any situation.

Remember that video uploaded in 2.0 of that monk doing 300 dps flank only rotation?
Drg now gets a 500 dps flank only rotation.

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THANK you, kind sir. So glad to see some dragoons staying reasonnable in this debate.

And yeah, the difference between caring about positionnals and not caring is within the normal deviation on a run due to crit and RNG. AKA: no one will notice if you do completely random positionnals.

Yes, IF you want to play optimally, you still have to hit them. But if you don't hit the positionnals, then the difference will be less than changing your body piece from i110 to i120.

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Originally Posted by beowulf81

For a while I thought you were butthurt about drg actually being competitive now, and demanding that the job still be punished for missing positionals in an rng mechanics environment. Silly me.

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Damn, i wonder how those mnks do being punished by 6 positionals in a "rng mechanics environment". I'm sure they would be delighted to have only 2 like dragoons.

At least we can agree that you are indeed silly.

All that being said, I would have preferred it if they had kept the positional requirements as they were and just gave DRGs the other changes. I don't like that it is so easy to put up big numbers, even if DPS isn't being maximized.

....you know, I think I get you now. You're right.

Dragoons aren't being rewarded enough for hitting positionals. They should change HT so that it if it hits from flank, it increases damage by 25%, and if CT hits from rear it should do 300 more potency and increase the dot damage by 15. That way a dragoon that pays attention to positionals is rewarded with the best Dps. Which is fair, since they don't have any real raid utility.

For a while I thought you were butthurt about drg actually being competitive now, and demanding that the job still be punished for missing positionals in an rng mechanics environment. Silly me.

Dragoons only got laughed at to say as 80% or more of the players that played the class are clueless in terms of rotation and such.
While i myself have played drg and know very well that buffs are needed i wonder were i will be sitting at now as my Nin more often then not did far more dmg then dragoons, lol
All that was needed this patch was Drg buff, nothing else but their idea of balance is well.... never balanced

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Originally Posted by Iselore

There is still benefit to landing CT on the rear and FyrmurlFloerasksyn has tested that HT does more damage on the flank. I don't think they intended to fully remove the positional requirements. Just lessen the detrimental effects of missing them.

To squeeze out the maximum dps for the rotation you still need to be landing those positionals. Just means that if you miss HT on flank you don't get punished so hard for it.

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They really only needed to remove the positional requirement for Heavy Thrust and the buff it applied. But I dont mind that they also removed it for CT. I expected the positionals to only affect the potency of the attack and that is what they did, exactly like the Monk attacks that merely lose potency for missing the positional.

Dragoon has always been the easiest melee class to play.

So what if we get close to your monk 1337deeps with minimal skill involved? Does it change the fact that monks are still st dps king? Does it change the fact that besides still being top dps, monks still have better utility than Dragoon? So much meaningless tears in this thread.

The 80% of Dragoons that got laughed at 'cos they didn't know the rotation..? Will still get laughed at. Baddies will always be baddies.

This buff helps out the Dragoons that were, prior to this patch, getting shut out of fcob pf parties; that had to be afforded extra attention by their static's healers just so they wouldn't die to mechanics the rest of the party could withstand; that were deprived of an entire combo when they couldn't get to the rear of the hydra and plummeted to the bottom of the dps charts; that had to change to ninja or monk because Dragoon was flat out the worst melee class and a crutch instead of an asset at endgame.

We still have little utility. We still aren't the top dps. But at least we can survive the mechanics that everyone else can; at least our dps won't flatline because we can't get to the rear; at least we can give to rather than take from our party.

People are forgetting just how bad Dragoon was before this.