Glamour & Need

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

You missed a valuable part of my quote



I was saying that is how it is in Wildstar, which is a similar conundrum to what is happening here over glamour rolling.

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Sorry for butchering the quote, but even still, it's not entirely the same as in XIV as you cannot "Need" outside of your role. The issue we see with XIV is that people feel their use of a certain item is more important than someone else's.

I've never played Wildstar, so can't comment on the lotting rules, but if it's a gigantic free for all....then lol.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Sorry for butchering the quote, but even still, it's not entirely the same as in XIV as you cannot "Need" outside of your role. The issue we see with XIV is that people feel their use of a certain item is more important than someone else's.

I've never played Wildstar, so can't comment on the lotting rules, but if it's a gigantic free for all....then lol.

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Np, I skim posts sometimes too. lol.

And yea, Wildstar's need/greed is a lot less refined than here. It can get... hairy sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Could be solved by SE handing out all those gear as lvl 1 glamour alternatives.

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By that logic, it could be solved by SE handing out equipment with the highest possible endgame stats at level 1. If we're given all the cosmetics and all the stats at the outset, there'd be no need for anyone to ever lot on any dungeon loot. Of course, there wouldn't be much of a game left at that point, either. The fact is that people run content to get stuff they want. If they're given everything they want upfront, there's no reason left to run the content. That's equally true of both stat bonuses and cosmetics.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So it comes more down to: "Should I be nice and let someone who gets use out of it try their luck or should I should be that guy and take it even though I have zero use for it?"

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They may well have an extremely important use for it. Even after lots of posters have pointed that out, how can you still talk about everyone but yourself as having "zero use"?
If someone wants it for its appearance, they'll be using the item directly themselves.
If someone wants it for better stats, they'll be using the item directly themselves.
If someone wants it to equip their retainer, they'll be using the item directly themselves.
Now, if somebody just wants to trade it in for gil or seals, that's a different matter. They're not using it, they're trading it in, and that's what "Greed" is for. (The biggest distinction here is that the particular item is irrelevant. You could get the same gil or seals from anything.)

Your problem, and the OP's, is that you're trying to equate the most important use in the game as equivalent to the least important, while singling out the second-most important use (improved stats) as being the only one you'll count. That's total nonsense.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

It doesn't really matter either way considering that it's not like you can only run the instance once ever. If what you want doesn't drop the first time, or it does but you lose the roll, nothing is stopping you from running it again until you do get what you want.

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Well, currently nothing is stopping you. If the OP got his way, then once you've run the dungeon a few times and either it didn't drop or you lost the roll, you'd lose the right to roll on it ever again. So what you don't get at first, you wouldn't ever get. And that's where the real problem lies with the suggestion - with the fact that it would effectively prohibit farming for an item until you can get it.

A lot of the nice gear I had waiting for me at my retainer for when I leveled up classes besides my first one, I got because of level synced players in that class who passed instead of rolling Need just to scrap the gear immediately for seals. So to those people I'd like to say 'Thanks!'. For anyone who says 'If you want the gear you should run a dungeon in that class' I invite you to put your money where your mouth is and take everything at your retainer for a class you haven't leveled that high yet, turn it in for seals now, and earn it again as you're leveling up that class. That's not to say people have no right to take gear for their class that's below their level, just that it's a certain type of player that runs through a dungeon snapping up green gear left and right they plan to scrap immediately without seeing if there's anyone who actually wants to use it for something other than GC seals.

One of the problems here is that, at least for levels 1-49, it's virtually impossible to get gear (at least full sets of it) for the class you're playing while it's still useful to you, stat-wise. On my ACN/SCH character, for instance, I ran the first trio of low level dungeons every day for nearly a month before finally getting the Acolyte's Robe. Of course, by that time, all those low-level dungeon runs had raised me to something like level 42 or 43. I wasn't going to pass on the item I'd spent a month trying to get (and which was still stat-wise useful for my level 15 CNJ and THM classes) just because all my attempts for it had already raised my scholar to well above the item's level.

I guess it'd be a bit different at endgame, where you're gearing up rather than leveling up. There you'd at least have the option of focusing on a particular item or set and not moving on until you complete it, which is something that's not even possible while leveling. But even then, most people want more variety in their game than that, and want the ability to work on several different things. That's going to turn into looting the ones that take longer due to the vagaries of RNG after the ones that come available sooner, even if that's not the order of their iLevel.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

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Not necessarily. Glamoring is using the item. I never actually said no to glamor needing, if you actually go back and read what I said you would notice that I only ever said seal needing.

Rolling need with "good golly I sure am going to actually glamor this over my gear" is perfectly OK. "Maybe I will glamor this over something someday" is not, nor is "Delicius seals". On the same note though, ideally, someone rolling for an alt job would have equal priority to your glamor roll too, but that is another matter entirely. It is a pretty fair assertion that most of the items people need on aren't actually for glamoring though. Your example is sort of a barely visible minority here, where as most people are just doing roulettes or myth farming or something- which are the problem people. These are the same people who just need everything they can.

Worth noting that there is always the secondary issue of who needs the item the MOST, but that is a lot harder to clearly outline. The bare minimum here is "Will you use the item? y/n" and that's the point.

There is no self sacrifice going on here, it is a question of being an asshole or not. The fact that such a simple idea is failing to get through to so many people is a little ridiculous...

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

There's less people out there Needing for glamour than there are Needing to turn-in for Grand Company points. Those are my real plague.

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He gets it.

And again, there are a lot of people who need without even that level of justification. I have to keep underlining this; since the cap removal of CT I have literally never seen a CT belt. Belt. Not glamorable. Not even useful for retainers in most cases. Not get needed on. In most cases, these people already have i100 or i110s in the same slot already. That is absolutely ridiculous.

What the? My last post was deleted...

Not really sure what was wrong it in... I mentioned actual real situations that happened but didn't name anyone, couldn't even name them if I wanted to.

Hey hey, guess what?

Item De-synthesis is coming. Get ready for everyone in the world to Need on items so they can destroy them for the sake of leveling up their De-synth skill.
All your stat upgrades and glamours will make way for the 15 xp and whatever items are yielded for blowing it up.
This will also be a legitimate reason to Need something.
Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

Hey hey, guess what?

Item De-synthesis is coming. Get ready for everyone in the world to Need on items so they can destroy them for the sake of leveling up their De-synth skill.
All your stat upgrades and glamours will make way for the 15 xp and whatever items are yielded for blowing it up.
This will also be a legitimate reason to Need something.
Please look forward to it.

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Thanks for the reminder. I cleared out quite a chunk of stuffs from my retainer and I think it is about time to roll need/greed them back.

I can understand if you let an equipment you care for to someone who need it if he was someone you know and you play with because him being well equipped will make your future runs easier.
But someone you don't know and probably won't meet again ? On the premise that he really need it but he is not on the right job right now ?