backwards walking in 2.0

Anyone see 2.0 vid you can see backwards walking. Looks kinda werid. Should it stay?

Shows it at 17:24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mos6_mQcR78

I watched the newer video closely and it seems like that's the normal walk, not even locked onto a monster. Kinda hope it's something just not enabled yet. I like the movement now as it is.

They should keep movement how it is in 1.0.... It just feels so natural how it is now.

http://gifs.gifbin.com/072010/128030...t-moonwalk.gif

haters gonna hate

The build they showed seemed to be missing some animations. There's no job change graphic, and there's no chocobo whistle sound or animation. It's not unreasonable to think that the backwards-diagonal animation isn't in there yet either.

I walk backwards all the time.

I think they're still in a very early phase so that the animation will be cleared eventually. I wouldn't worry >>too<< much about not-yet-smooth things in the vid due to the pre alpha state. Not saying that we should not give feedback (we definitely should) but maybe we don't need to worry too much now. We should worry if this was shortly before the release. :p

I see the backwards walking as an intended change to the game. Especially with PvP on the way.

1.XX:
You're able to start running full speed in any direction regardless of what direction the camera is facing. This could get annoying and make balancing PvP difficult.

2.0:
Walking towards the camera = backpedal. In order to go in a certain direction (excluding strafe left/right) you will need to spin the camera. <-- This is how almost every other MMO works.

But as I said, it's not just about making it standard it's definitely for PvP. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to do PvP when people can just start to run full speed in any direction.

TLDR: This is done on purpose. It's a much better mechanic. Stop crying.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I think they're still in a very early phase so that the animation will be cleared eventually. I wouldn't worry >>too<< much about not-yet-so-smooth things in the vid due to the pre alpha state. Not saying that we should not give feedback (we definitely should) but maybe we don't need to worry too much now. We should worry if this was shortly before the release. :p

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I agree.

Though i agree with this being a worthy thread. Best to get our feedback out before any changes hit the cutting floor. I also like the movement we currently have. being able to turn and run backwards without swinging the camera is actually pretty helpful at times. Also lets you do quite a bit of movement while keeping your camera trained on a place you want to watch.

This may be one of the somewhat few areas where i would totally support an Options toggle for a type of auto-lockon or free movement (more akin to what we have now minus a lockon.)

This could also be helpful for Current FF14 player to move as they are used to. And new players who are used to what appears to be a more mainstream control stiyle.

Coming from so many other games i actually enjoy the current FF14 movement. Its more all the elements that effect it that are the problems. (UI, Latency and such)

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I see the backwards walking as an intended change to the game. Especially with PvP on the way.

1.XX:
You're able to start running full speed in any direction regardless of what direction the camera is facing. This could get annoying and make balancing PvP difficult.

2.0:
Walking towards the camera = backpedal. In order to go in a certain direction (excluding strafe left/right) you will need to spin the camera. <-- This is how almost every other MMO works.

But as I said, it's not just about making it standard it's definitely for PvP. I can't imagine how annoying it would be to do PvP when people can just start to run full speed in any direction.

TLDR: This is done on purpose. It's a much better mechanic. Stop crying.

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Besides my issue with your TLDR...

It may well be intended. However In almost every other MMO you can also swing your camera, and take off running in any direction anyway. I would concider this more of a moot point. Unless your rotation speed was so low that it took too much movement to swing your camera.

The main difference really is that camera position doesn't dictate direction directly, so to speak. I have no issue with either pvp wise. since everyone would have it available its neither an advantage or disadvantage.

I always strafe away in PVP anyway, its much faster then backpedaling. Basiclly, if they put it in to remove escaping in a backwards direction, it likely won't have the desired effect.

I think the intent is to have controls similar to other MMOs, so movement isn't different to what folks are used to as they come to 2.0 for the first time. I don't see a reason why they could not include the controls we are already used to.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

1.XX:
You're able to start running full speed in any direction regardless of what direction the camera is facing. This could get annoying and make balancing PvP difficult.

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So basically, PvP is going to ruin what unique features FFXIV ever had? Gee, sounds grand! Can't wait!

/sarcasm

I really don't see whats wrong with the back pedaling shown in the video. It looks very smooth and fluid to me. From the looks of the combat it looks like it will turn out to be great and thats what new players want, smooth combat. Lets be honest here WoW has the BEST smooth combat out of any MMO. Do you really think people stick around for the lore or the community for that game?

For this to be a pre-alpha build and for the movements to look as crisp as they are is just amazing. You guys have to let go of the old and accept this new 2.0. It's a whole new game. If it brings a good amount of content on day 1 and gets updated frequently then expect this to have a ton of old and new players sticking around for a very long time.

I've mentioned this before on the other thread, but I'll say it again:

The reason I, personally, would like to see the animations we have in 1.0 is because it gives our characters a sense of weight, realism, and personality.

Why would SE go through all the effort to do motion-capture if it's all going to be dumbed down because people prefer a more "WoW-like" experience? Why? WHY?

No, this has nothing to do with "letting go of the old and accepting the new." It's not about being in denial or refusing to change, it has to do with the fact that SE put a lot of hard work into their game. It's what makes it unique in its own way and it shouldn't feel pressured by trying to "fit in."

Do not confuse my argument with something like that I do not want FFXIV to learn from others, I'm just pointing out ONE thing that bothers me.

So I hope that what we saw at Gamescom was nothing more than an pre-alpha/alpha and that it was just missing some animations and we'll get to see them in 2.0.

With what Niccolo said. Theres change thats improvement, and change for the sake of change. Both of which are subjective. With that said in my opinion what is "wrong" with current movement controls has less to do with movement control style and more with the package its in.

The motion capture we have now is good. The current movement style/controls are fine in my opinion. Could an option or change to a "standard" formula help some new players who arrive from a game with that forumla, i can see that.

In my opinion thats independant of if the current controls do or do not "work" for an MMO.

Fluid and responsive need not equal something else in this case. Nor do i see any advantage one player may have over another when both can or are using the same controls.

Which i think brings us preferance. Some like how we move now, some like another way. Do we really need to be rude over that?

I just hope that we get to pick between the 2. One of the things I really, really like about FFXIV now is the animations (except for when they glitch up)

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Originally Posted by _pops

The reason I, personally, would like to see the animations we have in 1.0 is because it gives our characters a sense of weight, realism, and personality.

Why would SE go through all the effort to do motion-capture if it's all going to be dumbed down because people prefer a more "WoW-like" experience? Why? WHY?

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this is dumb.

realism and weight, you say? show me video of human beings running full speed forward then immediately cutting back to face 180 degrees in the opposite direction and run full speed again. do you even understand how movement works in real life? athletes try their best to make sudden cuts far less extreme than that and it still often ends up in a blown ACL.

furthermore, the constant comparisons to wow. why would you do that? why? why? you clearly haven't ever played the game.

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

this is dumb.

realism and weight, you say? show me video of human beings running full speed forward then immediately cutting back to face 180 degrees in the opposite direction and run full speed again. do you even understand how movement works in real life? athletes try their best to make sudden cuts far less extreme than that and it still often ends up in a blown ACL.

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Running full speed on FFXIV =/= Running full speed in real life.

The characters we have actually look like they are jogging, making it quite possible to make a 180 turn and still be jogging.

Oh, and its a video game btw. So I am on neither side of this argument. Just sayin.:P

I thought Michael Jacksons walk was real, its just a trick? ;;

On topic, i love and welcome the new changes. Current movement sucks and i belive you are all in denial!

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

this is dumb.

realism and weight, you say? show me video of human beings running full speed forward then immediately cutting back to face 180 degrees in the opposite direction and run full speed again. do you even understand how movement works in real life? athletes try their best to make sudden cuts far less extreme than that and it still often ends up in a blown ACL.

furthermore, the constant comparisons to wow. why would you do that? why? why? you clearly haven't ever played the game.

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And this is in defence of running sideways while still Thrusting a spear into an enemy with both hands or...what?

Do we install ACL injuries as an RNG mechanic? ^^ I kid.
The point i'm making with this response is you can harp on whatever details you like but neither is going to be "realistic", dare i say, to either extream.

Your pointing out running at full speed an stopping and changing directionas a negative, but i belive both versions of movement will have this. The difference being in one you will need to spin the camera, and one is indipendant of that.

I belive his point about giving the characters weight and such is that in many games, they do not even animate the transition to the point FF14 does. Which i think is a positive in FF14 now.

I can not think of a game that makes you walk at a lower speed before running, atleast FF14 attempts to animate the process to resemble it.

no. you cannot run 180 degrees in the direct opposite direction in real life in the way that you can in this game. if you think the two are similar or comparable, you either haven't played this game, you don't exist in real life, or you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

he cited 'realism' as the reason why backpedaling is bad and why making instant cuts at 90-180 degree angles without snapping tendons and warping the fabric of space-time is good. because that is actually highly unrealistic, his premise is false. it's that simple.

Also if i dont recall wrong, in games like WoW, if you press down left mouse button, you will be able to move just like in ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Mort

Also if i dont recall wrong, in games like WoW, if you press down left mouse button, you will be able to move just like in ffxiv.

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great, now everyone will change their mind and start complaining about current ffxiv movement being too similar to WoW. just because apparently the thing to do as a FF MMO fan is to find ways to compare things you don't like to WoW, whether they're actually similar or not, then complain about it endlessly. good job.

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

no. you cannot run 180 degrees in the direct opposite direction in real life in the way that you can in this game. if you think the two are similar or comparable, you either haven't played this game, you don't exist in real life, or you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

he cited 'realism' as the reason why backpedaling is bad and why making instant cuts at 90-180 degree angles without snapping tendons and warping the fabric of space-time is good. because that is actually highly unrealistic, his premise is false. it's that simple.

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In real life you also get tired from running in a single direction for long periods. You can pop an ACL without turning. and many other inane points that have no real bearing. Technically, your correct that at full speed one can't. The ANIMATIONs give an illusion of a more natural transition while still giving smooth control to the player in a virtual world.

I didn't need to take his post literally. Compared to many compareable games the 180 transition certainly "looks" more realistic. Instead of pouncing on a cliche' point thats been argued to death on countless forums, you could propose what you would prefer.

I prefer FF14s tranistion animations to nearly none at all. Find a MMO. Strafe left, strafe right. Run left run right. If you have issue with FF14's take on popping ACLs, you must really hate nearly everyone else's attempt at it.

Aight.. lets bitch about how a certain Action looks in a pre-alpha...

no more grass talk?

Doesn't matter if it's pre-alpha if that movement is as intended :P

We could wait till release day and cry about it then "Why didn't you take our thoughts into concideration SE?"

SE: "Cause you posted your thoughts on release day?"

Theres no real bad time to give imput on if you like or dislike something you've seen in game footage/in game.

Theres never a good time to throw out rude one liners with no purpose but to badmouth others.

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Originally Posted by Gokulo

Doesn't matter if it's pre-alpha if that movement is as intended :P

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pre-alpha promotion video isnt about fine-tuning. i would wait for beta at least to figure if its still like that.

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Originally Posted by Viritess

We could wait till release day and cry about it then "Why didn't you take our thoughts into concideration SE?"

SE: "Cause you posted your thoughts on release day?"

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That is why SE will get beta-player. If beta-player point it out, then its the correct time to do it. this is a promotion-vid in pre-alpha stage. its like bitching about the color of a car, before its even color'd.

PUT A LIMIT ON WALKING BACKWARDS, IMMERSION RUINED!

A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and then one day a man is there and a king dies.

I'm glad someone started a thread on this topic. The backwards walking is disturbing. I loved the rest of the video but I'm praying the animation isn't finished yet. I can't stand games where it feels like you're skating over the surface - that's what this looks like to me. I thought they did a great job in FFXI and ffxiv 1.0 - so I have faith they will refine the animation. Would love to hear from a dev what the long term plan is...

Keep this going they need to know its a concern....

I think it missing some animations. I was wondering why he was only using like 2 abilities. Probably because other battle animations were not done yet.

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

this is dumb.

realism and weight, you say? show me video of human beings running full speed forward then immediately cutting back to face 180 degrees in the opposite direction and run full speed again. do you even understand how movement works in real life? athletes try their best to make sudden cuts far less extreme than that and it still often ends up in a blown ACL.

furthermore, the constant comparisons to wow. why would you do that? why? why? you clearly haven't ever played the game.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ikkenoe

no. you cannot run 180 degrees in the direct opposite direction in real life in the way that you can in this game. if you think the two are similar or comparable, you either haven't played this game, you don't exist in real life, or you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

he cited 'realism' as the reason why backpedaling is bad and why making instant cuts at 90-180 degree angles without snapping tendons and warping the fabric of space-time is good. because that is actually highly unrealistic, his premise is false. it's that simple.

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Oh, I didn't know opinions were dumb. I guess I forgot the memo!

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to go at. Pardon me for using WoW as an example, I did't know it was going to cause a reaction from someone. And yes, I've clearly played the game. No need to make assumptions of things you do not know.

If it helps, I went out of my way to do this. I apologize for the lag in the beginning. Fraps tends to slow my PC down at the start of recording. Also shitty quality is shitty and the random lag spikes in the video is something I couldn't control.

http://youtu.be/X477W3dtuyM

Not sure if you get the idea. I'm talking about the transition when you stop running or walking. Sure, there's no backpedaling when I have something targeted, but why can't we just have these animations from 1.0 for 2.0? Watch the Gamescom video again and see the character doesn't make that transition when they stopped running; it was an immediate halt. Not to mention when the characters rotated when they were standing still... It's as if they were robotic.

Maybe realism wasn't the proper term, fine. I just like how all the characters in the game now have this... Man, I don't know, I just like their animations and how life-like they are. As I said, I just want to see what we have now return to 2.0. That's all I want.

I'd like to chime in on this. It's not necessarily the animations that bump me, though the character definitely looks like it's sliding over the ground plane, instead of connecting with it, but I assume that'll be fixed eventually.

However, from someone who uses a controller to play, and prefers to over a mouse/keyboard, please please please make the control scheme shown in the video optional. Or keep it how it is now, where you'll strafe/backpedal while locked onto a target. I prefer to run in any direction regardless of where my camera is facing. Constant strafing and backpedaling with a controller would be way too cumbersome.

I'd hate to see PvP balancing dictate the game's basic controls.

As I said in my previous post. This is intended... Stop crying and get over it.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

As I said in my previous post. This is intended... Stop crying and get over it.

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No, you get over it.

It's people that bitched and moaned about wanting PvP that SE finally listened. But guess what? They have to sacrifice a unique feature to "balance things out." That's what PvP is all about. Balance. So we're going to have to deal with nerfs and all that dumb crap just because people want to go up in arms and PEWPEWPEW at each other.

PvP also brings the worst out of people, which is clearly represented by your attitude.

I'm not the only one that is bothered by this and we have every right to speak up. We're not going to sit here and twiddle our thumbs and go, "Oh ok." We now have the opportunity to say what we have to say because SE is finally listening to the playerbase.

If there's something we don't like, WE HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING.

Go ahead and say I'm butthurt. I am butthurt because I liked the simple things from 1.0. I don't see why it has to be removed or dumbed down because of some future content that is going to cause problems for it.

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Originally Posted by _pops

No, you get over it.

It's people that bitched and moaned about wanting PvP that SE finally listened. But guess what? They have to sacrifice a unique feature to "balance things out." That's what PvP is all about. Balance. So we're going to have to deal with nerfs and all that dumb crap just because people want to go up in arms and PEWPEWPEW at each other.

PvP also brings the worst out of people, which is clearly represented by your attitude.

I'm not the only one that is bothered by this and we have every right to speak up. We're not going to sit here and twiddle our thumbs and go, "Oh ok." We now have the opportunity to say what we have to say because SE is finally listening to the playerbase.

If there's something we don't like, WE HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING.

Go ahead and say I'm butthurt. I am butthurt because I liked the simple things from 1.0. I don't see why it has to be removed or dumbed down because of some future content that is going to cause problems for it.

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You're in a very vocal albeit small minority of people. In order for this game to succeed it's going to have to play as smooth as the competitors - you and the people that agree with you will not be able to sustain the finances SE will incur to keep this game running... but that other group can.

In short, deal with it. We got a unique game at the start and look where that got us.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

You're in a very vocal albeit small minority of people. In order for this game to succeed it's going to have to play as smooth as the competitors - you and the people that agree with you will not be able to sustain the finances SE will incur to keep this game running... but that other group can.

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This is true, I won't argue against that. As it was mentioned before, we don't even know if what we saw in the video is the final thing, but I don't see what's so wrong about pointing out something we don't like?

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

In short, deal with it. We got a unique game at the start and look where that got us.

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I can "deal" with it for now, as it's too early. If we get more videos down the road and it hasn't changed, then I should have every right to be upset. Will it be a game breaker for me? No, but it is a damn shame to change something from a game that made it so special.

Man people will complain about ANYTHING. Grass, and now this? If you are going to make demands about the smallest aspects of the game, I'd say don't play. I mean give the developers some air they are trying to develop a massive world from scratch and people are saying no this game better change the walk backwards animation or the grass! If you care about these small issues so deeply I advise you try making your own game. Focus on the content that matters the gameplay! I bet yoshi was in disbelief when he heard the threads were full complaint about the grass. The grass is 2d in 1.0. Can the forums stop trying to micro manage this game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ieGbZji_4

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Originally Posted by Awdogsgo2heaven

I mean give the developers some air

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Two years.

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Originally Posted by Yves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ieGbZji_4

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Thanks, I just choked on my drink.

This is a tough one. It's hard to run away when you just backstep. On the other hand you're not automatically facing your target when you start to attack. At the very least I hope the "gamepad UI" doesn't have this, and at the most I hope you can disable it in the config.