100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

[Arcon]

If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

Because the mass isn't always the brightest. Also, "arguing" implies that people present arguments, which no one really does. Most people just flame about how he should just leave the BST in question be and do something else meanwhile, which isn't always an option (and is no argument against it). Others said stuff like "We need it because we suck otherwise" which is neither true, nor an argument for it if it was. And that was the only thing I heard people say against it.

Being physically invincible over such a long period is poor design imo. Explain how it makes sense to have an absolutely invincible pet? How is that, in any way, logical? I honestly can't imagine it. When someone gets hit, they're supposed to take damage. They should be able to reduce that damage, that's what Defense and PDT is for. But be immune to it? That's a bit of a stretch. Just look at how many mobs and even mob families completely lack magical damage attacks. All of those (including high tier NMs) become easily soloable. NMs, that, for that matter, shouldn't even be easily killable. I just fail to see the sense in that. Obviously SE does, because they gimped SMN but not BST and PUP.

And yes, it is 100%. Death Scissors deal upwards of 2k damage. Assuming x/1024 distribution (which, to my knowledge, is the finest grade distinction in all of FFXI's calculations), even -1023/1024 PDT would mean Death Scissors would deal at least 1 point of damage, but I've seen it hit Nazuna for 0 more than once. Also, what does it matter? 99% would still be implausible.

Holding mobs is a whole other issue, the fact that this kind of damage reduction alone is possible is wrong imo. I'm a SMN too, and I'm still glad SE nerved them for that. Why they didn't think it should apply for other pets too, though, is beyond me.

[Khajit]

Not even close to the same thing, if people are zombying the mob it can easily be taken by someone else and even with RR spam they can still easily lose. Hard to lose with a mob where your pet has -100% pdt and -50+ mdt, huge heals with pet food and a 4-5 mins respawn on the pet.

You sound like a person that's never seen people zombie shit nonstop. Kiting isn't exactly hard.

[Xilk]

lolz
I can't help but laugh even though this topic is near and dear to me :P
I'm easily one of the earliest 100% -pdt bsts out there. I'll go further, I'm responsible for telling alot of other bsts about all the stuff they can solo and how to do it and how to get 100% -pdt alot of ways. I got ALOT of stuff in abyssea using pet tanks. I dare to say my avid posting helped share this w/ many many players.

Send your aggro... I'll let my pet tank you while I sit back and laugh!

@Ilax
This is probably the only response I'll give you. You are targeting 1 job begging for a nerf SOLELY because you didn't get the NM you wanted when you wanted it. You can encounter the same problem if it were an LS monopolizing an NM.
Are you kidding? Rani w/out a brew. It take a long time no matter what your setup. the NM fight taking too long is not because it was a bst, I'll bet you stayed there the whole time because you were trying to steal the NM>


I really wish GreatGuardian and Cyrana would tone it down a bit. You both have contributed very valuable thoughts and perspectives to the conversation, but I think you are both going overboard and accusing the other of falsehoods.
Please remember not to paint the brush too broadly. Player behavior =/= Job

I don't think any player who has used a 100% PET pdt set w/ any experience will think its that bad. Ilax's example is the only place where it affects other players. If you lowered the pdt to 87% all you are doing is making it more expensive. BST will burn thru jugs more often, use more curative items, and take LONGER To kill something. We killed plenty of NM's w/out 100% pdt before heroes of abyssea, before abyssea... its not that different. It might also make it easier for other groups to steal an nm and stomp on a solo bst.

The problem is NOT bst 100% PET pdt. Its congestion and competition for NM's.

I'm pretty sure I posted the first Hedjedjet Solo. I told the bst we could solo it. My next statement is "but its not worth the time" at the very least get a smn to duo w/ you and it will take maybe 30 min. Also, Hedj has as NASTY poison aura.
If you think it takes NO skill to solo these NM's on bst w/ a 100% pdt set, you just show your ignorance. Soloing is often not very profitable for abyssea. You wan weakness proc's to be profitable in abyssea. This doesn't change when you are a bst.

IF you think it is broken, go try it. There are experienced bst in this thread who know all the limitations. There are experienced players in this thread who have just never seen this and are surprised by it. And There are haters (Ilax) who use their selfishness to fuel aggression to other players and trying to get some revenge w/ this thread, hoping SE will slam the nerf on another group of players.

The pet having 100% pdt does not make it, or you as a BST invincible. I'm surprised no one has suggested recruiting us bsts as pullers for alliances. We can pop/pull/hold an NM ready for the alliance to destroy VERY quickly. We can pull mass groups for Cleaving or AoE nuking.

Making this an attack on bst is a way to be hateful to other players instead of addressing the real issue.

IF you HONESTLY think this is a greater game breaker than any other imbalances in abyssea (WHM + MNK DUO POWER), I would honestly interested in hearing why. Keep in mind, the main doesn't get 100% pdt-. We are just like every other player in that regard. We get hit, we die.

Magic Damage
DoT spells
AoE
Hate resets

this is the short list off the top of my head that mitigates the advantage bst can have w/ a 100% pdt set. (and it takes a good amount of work to get this going)

Did you also scream to nerf the RDM/nin tanking a year or so ago?

[Greatguardian]

No, I could care less about congestion. I just do other things. It's a cold, hard fact that taking 0 damage is highly unlikely to be intentional.

Mnk+Whm duos may be strong, but it still requires people to be at the keyboard performing well. Is it easy for a half decent player to coast through NMs as Mnk+Whm? Yeah. But there is still a fine line between "Reducing damage" and "Eliminating all damage entirely".

Pinning? Perfectly acceptable according to GMs.

Taking 0 damage from Ironclad and Amhuluk attacks via Z-coordinate abuse? Exploit, and patched.

Edit: For the record, I really don't care what Beastmasters do. I don't care if they just keep solo'ing the same things with 87.5% PDT. But it's highly likely that this was a mistake/oversight and will be corrected. Being immune to all physical damage is simply silly.

[Xilk]

No, I could care less about congestion. I just do other things. It's a cold, hard fact that taking 0 damage is highly unlikely to be intentional.

Mnk+Whm duos may be strong, but it still requires people to be at the keyboard performing well. Is it easy for a half decent player to coast through NMs as Mnk+Whm? Yeah. But there is still a fine line between "Reducing damage" and "Eliminating all damage entirely".

Pinning? Perfectly acceptable according to GMs.

Taking 0 damage from Ironclad and Amhuluk attacks via Z-coordinate abuse? Exploit, and patched.

It is in no way shape or form a "Cold hard fact"
Its possible that it unintended. Its also possible that its acceptable to devs. If they speak up, we'll know. Until then all you can do is guess.

"Eliminating all damage entirely" is not what is happening.

It is a rare NM that this might be the case. Please feel free to find one. None come to mind, and I've killed alot of NM's this way. If you find one, I doubt it will be one you care about or anyone competes over. I'll also bet that nerfing pet 100% -pdt won't make much difference at all in bst soloing it.

Edit: AH!! I have to correct myself. I thought of an NM you might care about... maybe. Emperador de Altepa.

Nasty bugger. but bst can solo it afk if they want to run away and afk while pet does it.. maybe.. I don't know I never tried soloing it.. might run out of time... I think it would be a rediculous waste of time, but it is possible. (and bst have little reason to fight it for bst's sake) I've never seen competition for that nm. It does take along time too. YOu also need a very high pdt so nerfing pet pdt would make this fight much more challenging.
Frankly I don't see why you wouldn't want to bring a bst along to take advantage of the uses of 100% -pdt on the pet.

[Ilax]

I don't think any player who has used a 100% PET pdt set w/ any experience will think its that bad. Ilax's example is the only place where it affects other players. If you lowered the pdt to 87% all you are doing is making it more expensive. BST will burn thru jugs more often, use more curative items, and take LONGER To kill something.

So is for ninja when they have to use toolz, and all other job for food, medic(echo drop), and what about SMN? That argument is just plain wrong.

We killed plenty of NM's w/out 100% pdt before heroes of abyssea, before abyssea... its not that different. It might also make it easier for other groups to steal an nm and stomp on a solo bst.

idc if they take 2h long to kill, they will time out before able to do it, how about that? And if they still success then great work, nothing i can complain there, sux that gonna take 1h30 but at least is not with a lame abuse of -100% PDT.

You think is only because i am a job hater? Not at all, just find that stupid wasting so much time (for the bst/pup itself) + make everyone else waste time for a glitch that should not be present from base.

So if you really think is fair as i said it before then SE should unlock all other 19 job, and everyone can c##k block everyone, and we can spend 18h in abyssea/day waiting every solo'ing.

[Greatguardian]

It is in no way shape or form a "Cold hard fact"
Its possible that it unintended. Its also possible that its acceptable to devs. If they speak up, we'll know. Until then all you can do is guess.

"Eliminating all damage entirely" is not what is happening.

It is a rare NM that this might be the case. Please feel free to find one. None come to mind, and I've killed alot of NM's this way. If you find one, I doubt it will be one you care about or anyone competes over. I'll also bet that nerfing pet 100% -pdt won't make much difference at all in bst soloing it.

Edit: AH!! I have to correct myself. I thought of an NM you might care about... maybe. Emperador de Altepa.

Nasty bugger. but bst can solo it afk if they want to run away and afk while pet does it. I think it would be a rediculous waste of time, but it is possible. (and bst have little reason to fight it for bst's sake) I've never seen competition for that nm. It does take along time too. YOu also need a very high pdt so nerfing pet pdt would make this fight much more challenging.
Frankly I don't see why you wouldn't want to bring a bst along to take advantage of the uses of 100% -pdt on the pet.

Eliminating all physical damage entirely is exactly what is happening. Ironclads could still hit Z-pinners with certain TP moves. That does not mean it was not an exploit.

Regardless, you are right in the sense that nothing can be done by the playerbase either way. Like I said, I care very little about the actual application of this. I don't have Bst leveled, I don't use pets to solo, and it doesn't bother me much when I see someone spending 2 hours solo'ing an NM on Bst. It is simply rather ridiculous to claim that this was by design when Summoner was nerfed all of a few weeks ago when they had the exact same glitch.

This thread has simply raised my expectations for the eventual Noah's Flood of tears that will rain down when/if this gets adjusted.

[Volkai]

If the pet PDT limit is higher than the player character PDT limit, it is probably either a glitch or an oversight.

I disagree. I think players should be allowed even more PDT as well. I want to be able to solo everything without a healer. I want to be a tank, melee and a healer all rolled into one.

If SE doesn't make the game easier, I'm going to quit and make my friends quit along with me.

Wow, really? So you want a game with no challenge at all, do you?

You're the sort of person World of Warcraft exists for. <.<;

[Xilk]

Eliminating all physical damage entirely is exactly what is happening. Ironclads could still hit Z-pinners with certain TP moves. That does not mean it was not an exploit.

Regardless, you are right in the sense that nothing can be done by the playerbase either way. Like I said, I care very little about the actual application of this. I don't have Bst leveled, I don't use pets to solo, and it doesn't bother me much when I see someone spending 2 hours solo'ing an NM on Bst. It is simply rather ridiculous to claim that this was by design when Summoner was nerfed all of a few weeks ago when they had the exact same glitch.

This thread has simply raised my expectations for the eventual Noah's Flood of tears that will rain down when/if this gets adjusted.

Now you are changing your tune, you said all damage before, now just all physical damage. you really have to see how little physical damage is the challenge for nm's the whm mnk duo shows this.

Its really not even close to what was happening w/ summoners.

First, avatars got 100% -pdt at 100% health. They were not receiving the detrimental effects of the atma.
Second, Avatars used 1x atma for this, the rest could be dedicated to damage.
Third, Avatars have the elemental resistance as well. When bst make a 100% pdt pet, its very hard to kill something. you have a good tank, but you really need to get in there and melee to kill it. you are vulnerable to AoE. hate reset etc.

I don't buy it that you don't care about the application. You've argued too long in this thread for that to be true anymore. Part of bst pet pdt seems to offend you. I don't understand why.
The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

[Ilax]

The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

Only flood of tears i see is when everyone face day long BST solo'ing NM for 60~90 min bc they can exploit -100% PDT. As i say idc if is BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, NIN, name all job, is plain stupid and broken to take 0 dmg.