Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

[Greatguardian]

ITT: People who are only recently beginning to grasp basic to advanced game mechanics think that the "Bad player influx" (a very mild term) started or increased with Abyssea.

Hint: It didn't. There were thousands of level 75, absolutely horrid players who ruined the game for other people when they managed to get in some sort of group with them years before Abyssea was released. Don't kid yourself into thinking Key-Mastering has allowed a higher number of these people to level up. Before Abyssea, it was East Ronfaure birds and level sync that made everyone hit max level and suck at their jobs. Before East Ronfaure birds and level sync it was Lesser Colibri and ToAU exp that made everyone hit max level and suck at their jobs.

The only thing Abyssea has created is a huge section of FFXI's 'Middle Class' that have managed to gain some autonomy with the release of easily accessible lowman-oriented endgame content and let it go to their heads. There's a reason every top tier player posting in this thread just wants it to end.

[Dubberrucky]

ITT: People who are only recently beginning to grasp basic to advanced game mechanics think that the "Bad player influx" (a very mild term) started or increased with Abyssea.

Hint: It didn't. There were thousands of level 75, absolutely horrid players who ruined the game for other people when they managed to get in some sort of group with them years before Abyssea was released. Don't kid yourself into thinking Key-Mastering has allowed a higher number of these people to level up. Before Abyssea, it was East Ronfaure birds and level sync that made everyone hit max level and suck at their jobs. Before East Ronfaure birds and level sync it was Lesser Colibri and ToAU exp that made everyone hit max level and suck at their jobs.

The only thing Abyssea has created is a huge section of FFXI's 'Middle Class' that have managed to gain some autonomy with the release of easily accessible lowman-oriented endgame content and let it go to their heads. There's a reason every top tier player posting in this thread just wants it to end.

The increase is not only in the amount of people but in the amount of jobs a distinct difference. People are cutting corners and being lazy on more jobs. This results in on top of an already strugleing to keep up player who just does not grasp the game an otherwise good player coming to an event or party as some gimped crapily played job. Therefore it has worsened the problem that it is so readily available and quick to do like it or not to those who believe aby burning is the best thing since sliced bread. To say that it doesn't exist without it or that it has not increase since introduction is rather naive regardless of opinion on whether the level should be raised.

[Greatguardian]

Okay.

Let's take this one step at a time since you seem to refuse to use paragraph breaks or differentiate between your ideas at all.

There are not more players in general that are max level and bad, you have conceded this point.

Instead, you contend that more of these bad, max level players have more jobs at max level that they are bad at.

Okay. Next you're asserting that *Otherwise Good Players* will now come to things on poorly geared, unskilled jobs.

I contest this point and assert myself that any otherwise good player would not use a poorly geared, unskilled job until it was properly geared and skilled.

You then contend that the problem is that leveling jobs is readily available and quick.

I contest this point and assert that leveling has no effect on whether or not someone is a bad player, or has multiple unskilled jobs.

You then say that it would be naive to believe that [quick and easy leveling] doesn't exist without [Abyssea], and [unskilled player numbers] have not increased since [Abyssea's] introduction.

It does. They haven't. People are still dumb. Leveling has been easy for years. The difference now is... No, there's no difference now. Just more bad players looking down on worse players.

[Seis]

The increase is not only in the amount of people but in the amount of jobs a distinct difference. People are cutting corners and being lazy on more jobs. This results in on top of an already strugleing to keep up player who just does not grasp the game an otherwise good player coming to an event or party as some gimped crapily played job. Therefore it has worsened the problem that it is so readily available and quick to do like it or not to those who believe aby burning is the best thing since sliced bread. To say that it doesn't exist without it or that it has not increase since introduction is rather naive regardless of opinion on whether the level should be raised.

Eh, it's not like bad players have been increasing. Most of the playerbase has been around for years.

Rather, I think you're confusing the real issue. Instead of sitting in town for days trying to organize events (before bads ruined it for you), you now get to do it inside an hour - because there's more people to choose from and party structure is largely irrelevant. It's not that the problem got worse, it's that it's more emphasized, and most people will take that, because their chances to succeed went up as well.

[Xilk]

arguing w/ Dubber on this point is pretty useless. The point stays the same but the reason behind it just cycles through the ninjutsu elemental wheel. 3 full cycles so far on this thread?

[Dubberrucky]

Meh probably more than 3 but when people continue to miss the point it keeps on going. It amuses me that they all get so bothered by a different opinion but I could give an entire book of reasons that I have that opinion lol.

[rog]

Meh probably more than 3 but when people continue to miss the point it keeps on going. It amuses me that they all get so bothered by a different opinion but I could give an entire book of reasons that I have that opinion lol.

Maybe if you had a point to make that wasn't wrong, we wouldn't miss it. When someone says something sooo beyond stupid, many people will simply assume they misunderstood, or that you worded it poorly, and assume you meant something else. After all, why would you ever intentionally say something that is so stupid, and wrong?

[Xilk]

Meh probably more than 3 but when people continue to miss the point it keeps on going. It amuses me that they all get so bothered by a different opinion but I could give an entire book of reasons that I have that opinion lol.

no body is missing the point but you. Changing the claimed underlying reason is what you do when your reason is smashed to the ground as completely invalid or just not important to others. Then rinse recycle. Its almost like arguing by filibuster. Tire them out so they don't care to keep repeating themselves since you can't just keep talking to prevent anyone else from having the chance.

I think this thread makes it pretty clear that most do not share your opinion.

[MetalKhaos]

I have to sort of agree with that. I see many people burning to 90 through Abyssea, but do not gain any of the skills from actually going through the process of leveling up. I understand also though that many people won't even exp in many of the old places as well.

[Cream_Soda]

but do not gain any of the skills from actually going through the process of leveling up.

So, please. Tell me what skills a smn main heal gets lv'ing 10-75+ (because that's all they ever get invited for) to help them with their use of avatars at 90.

What skills do rdm get in exp pts 10-75+ that make them better soloist than bsts at 90 or the best fell cleave burn pullers?

etc. etc. etc.

The way you play 99% of the jobs 1-89 is not how you play them at 90.