Abyssea outside of Abyssea - Yay?

[Alukat]

u obviously missed the point that my post was about pre-abyssea times, or did u just start to play when abyssea was released and don't even know them?

"war trumps all DDs" lol
i'm doing 2-3k eviscerations w/o SA and my thf is geared for Mercy stroke and for evisceration it is totally gimped.
MNK best tank, that's pretty silly, i haven't found a mob yet which i couldn't tank as thf.
just because monk has counter for some more damage it doesn't suppose to mean that mnk should be the only way to tank or nin or dnc.
solo'd koios, was tanking gamayun,bennu,maere,resheph,carabosse (we killed it trio and we saw a 10 ppl ally wiping lol) and some more mobs. as soon my trio/quadro group is done with the +1's we go for +'2. and then i can tell u that some or even many of them can be tanked by thf.

[Karbuncle]

I think its funny he mentions DNC but not THF. THF > DNC For everything. you know why ;O? THF can evade as good, DD as good, and stay alive as good (why wouldn't you bring a whm !), and THF Gets TREASURE HUNTER :O!!!

Thf wins ;P

[Leonlionheart]

I think its funny he mentions DNC but not THF. THF > DNC For everything. you know why ;O? THF can evade as good, DD as good, and stay alive as good (why wouldn't you bring a whm !), and THF Gets TREASURE HUNTER :O!!!

Thf wins ;P

Though I mentioned THF being all you need to tank actually.
MNK still does it several times better, THF can get 1 shotted too easily by too many things. (Gates of Hades comes to mind, even though most of the time you will resist it. Fulmination too.)
MNK gets 4k HP in Heroes zones most of the time.
Oh did I mention MNK does several times better DPS? Victory Smite is a monster.

Although DNC will always be safer than THF.

u obviously missed the point that my post was about pre-abyssea times, or did u just start to play when abyssea was released and don't even know them?

"war trumps all DDs" lol
i'm doing 2-3k eviscerations w/o SA and my thf is geared for Mercy stroke and for evisceration it is totally gimped.
MNK best tank, that's pretty silly, i haven't found a mob yet which i couldn't tank as thf.
just because monk has counter for some more damage it doesn't suppose to mean that mnk should be the only way to tank or nin or dnc.
solo'd koios, was tanking gamayun,bennu,maere,resheph,carabosse (we killed it trio and we saw a 10 ppl ally wiping lol) and some more mobs. as soon my trio/quadro group is done with the +1's we go for +'2. and then i can tell u that some or even many of them can be tanked by thf.

lol WAR WRECKS THF DD. There's no competition. I do 5k Ukko's every 3~8 seconds, that's if Retaliation doesn't proc, WHICH it does, and often. 2~3 Ukko's and you'll be capped on hate, and that means that you will retaliate ALOT. Trust me, there's nothing that can out do WAR in reality or on paper in terms of PURE DD. Get's killed easily though, so that's a shame.
WAR/SAM gets sekka, hello 5k light. Meditate too, which allows you to SC without sekka if you're worth you're mettle at the job.

For the record I've played since pre-CoP, I'm just not delusional about jobs just because they are my favorite.

EDIT: underlined WRECKS.

[Karbuncle]

Although DNC will always be safer than THF.

Seems like an opinion Leon :|. so here's mine :O! I'd take a good WHM + THF combo over a DNC + WHM combo any day. DNC has that PDT thing, But THF has about 40 EVA on DNC in Job Traits/Skill.

While DNC can cure itself/etc, Won't matter if your WHM is worth spit :X. Don't get me wrong, DNC is a wonderful job, I'd just prefer THF over it when i duo with a WHM.

(MNK of course being a winner if i can find a THF or i dont want to TH the mob).

edi: I dunno if you already mentioned it, but DRG > WAR in terms of DD if the WAR does not have Ukko's Fury. Drakesbane spits all over Raging Rush. DRG also builds TP Faster with aids from Spirit/Soul jump so they WS more often.

WAR is amazing, but its not the "Best" DD unless said WAR has an Empyrean WS. even then... Victory Smite and MNKs natural DPS really gives WAR a run for its money.

and yes, WAR >>> THF in terms of DD lol. They're not miles apart like they used to be, but theres a clear winner.

[Leonlionheart]

Seems like an opinion Leon :|. so here's mine :O! I'd take a good WHM + THF combo over a DNC + WHM combo any day. DNC has that PDT thing, But THF has about 40 EVA on DNC in Job Traits/Skill.

While DNC can cure itself/etc, Won't matter if your WHM is worth spit :X. Don't get me wrong, DNC is a wonderful job, I'd just prefer THF over it when i duo with a WHM.

(MNK of course being a winner if i can find a THF or i dont want to TH the mob).

edi: I dunno if you already mentioned it, but DRG > WAR in terms of DD if the WAR does not have Ukko's Fury. Drakesbane spits all over Raging Rush. DRG also builds TP Faster with aids from Spirit/Soul jump so they WS more often.

WAR is amazing, but its not the "Best" DD unless said WAR has an Empyrean WS. even then... Victory Smite and MNKs natural DPS really gives WAR a run for its money.

and yes, WAR >>> THF in terms of DD lol. They're not miles apart like they used to be, but theres a clear winner.

I agree, but I've seen Itzpapalotl 1 shot too many THF's to really believe in the job's tanking ability. Fire Break doesn't happen often, but if you're relying on the THF to be the only tank and it's HP gets down to 3% from one attack if your WHM is doing something else (hasting, barfira, something that has to be done) the THF is royally screwed. DNC however, can put fan dance up and cure itself, and in bad situations Violent Flourish saves lives. (Particularly on Briareus and/or any NM that has long 'readying' for their abilities.)

Most NMs that won't really matter though, and THF can do it just fine. Hell THF barely needs utsusemi their evasion is so out the roof, allowing different subs and such. Most can even keep their DD gear on when tanking because of the pure skill/evasion they get before gear.

MNK with victory smite is great, yeah. But it's WAR's WS frequency that pushes it above the rest. Raging Rush usually does 2.5~5k for me, when I didn't have Ukko's yet. Ascetic's Fist does about 2~4k, TA spikes it particularly high if Impetus is charged. But MNK tp is a lot slower than WAR's.

I think DRG with Drakesbane and a 5hit is the only thing that could keep up with WAR, especially on birds.

But when Ukonvasara comes into play, or even Maschu +2, every other DD is ruined.

[Karbuncle]

I agree, but I've seen Itzpapalotl 1 shot too many THF's to really believe in the job's tanking ability. Fire Break doesn't happen often, but if you're relying on the THF to be the only tank and it's HP gets down to 3% from one attack if your WHM is doing something else (hasting, barfira, something that has to be done) the THF is royally screwed. DNC however, can put fan dance up and cure itself, and in bad situations Violent Flourish saves lives. (Particularly on Briareus and/or any NM that has long 'readying' for their abilities.)

Most NMs that won't really matter though, and THF can do it just fine. Hell THF barely needs utsusemi their evasion is so out the roof, allowing different subs and such. Most can even keep their DD gear on when tanking because of the pure skill/evasion they get before gear.

Dont DNC and THF have generally the same HP/Resistance?

If a THF is one shotted, so will the DNC in any situation. (unless its a physical move and the DNC already had the Fan-dance or W/E up).

[Alukat]

lol WAR WRECKS THF DD. There's no competition. I do 5k Ukko's every 3~8 seconds, that's if Retaliation doesn't proc, WHICH it does, and often. 2~3 Ukko's and you'll be capped on hate, and that means that you will retaliate ALOT. Trust me, there's nothing that can out do WAR in reality or on paper in terms of PURE DD. Get's killed easily though, so that's a shame.
WAR/SAM gets sekka, hello 5k light. Meditate too, which allows you to SC without sekka if you're worth you're mettle at the job.

For the record I've played since pre-CoP, I'm just not delusional about jobs just because they are my favorite.

EDIT: underlined WRECKS.

wait...what? 5k ukko's every 3-8 seconds?
now explain me pls how u get 50tp in 1,5-4 seconds with a 482 delay weapon.anyway u wouldn't even need /sam for solo light, sc window is 1-5 seconds after last ws, so if u time it right u should be able to do light anytime w/o /sam.

[Leonlionheart]

Dont DNC and THF have generally the same HP/Resistance?

If a THF is one shotted, so will the DNC in any situation. (unless its a physical move and the DNC already had the Fan-dance or W/E up).

Probably, but if a DNC's HP is reduced severely in one hit (like to less than 10%, which is usually what Fire Break from Itz does) then the DNC can, assuming he has TP, heal himself if the WHM is otherwise preoccupied.

[Karbuncle]

Probably, but if a DNC's HP is reduced severely in one hit (like to less than 10%, which is usually what Fire Break from Itz does) then the DNC can, assuming he has TP, heal himself if the WHM is otherwise preoccupied.

Yah, those are rare situations but i see your point.

THF Could also pop a Temp item though, or use Perfect dodge. If you're in that kind of situation more than once a fight you probably need a better WHM anyway :P

But again, i do see your point. You feel safer with DNC, I'd probably feel safer on THF :X

[Leonlionheart]

wait...what? 5k ukko's every 3-8 seconds?
now explain me pls how u get 50tp in 1,5-4 seconds with a 482 delay weapon.anyway u wouldn't even need /sam for solo light, sc window is 1-5 seconds after last ws, so if u time it right u should be able to do light anytime w/o /sam.

482 with 25% true haste from gear = 6.03 seconds. Add Hasso = 5.22, Haste = 4.05, March x2 (without +2 hands or Royal Guard's Flute) = 2.29 seconds. Atma of the Apocalypse allows TA, that's a minimum of 4.58 seconds for 100 TP.

Retaliation lowers that, I've gotten 100% TP in less time than it takes for Ukko's animation to finish.