To the posters of this fourm, understand constructive criticism

[Karbuncle]

Eventually, some do just need to sit back and remember this is a game, though. I know that statement is lit dynamite to some, but not everyone plays to relive their days of Algebra II. Some just wanna see cute moogles doing moogle-y things, so of course they won't know about haste caps, fTP, and so on.

Quick thing(LOL YA RIGHT INCOMING WALL OF TEXT). No one here is going to yell at someone for not understanding haste Values.

Its when they act like their way to play the game is right/better than anyone else and attempt to spread mis-information to everyone.

I remember a while back there was an incredibly informative haste-thread made here, and someone came in there babbling about using 1 gear set for everything and it being so cool and right, people jumped down her throat like no tomorrow because she was spewing false information as fact.

Its when people claim those who "Relive their Algebra II" days are trolling-elitist who can't have fun where the problems start. Or when people act like the only way to "Have fun" with the game is to be vehemently ignorant to game mechanics. When i try to tell them "Some people have fun by being the best, thats okay too" i get "SHUT UP TROLL".

Take a look at the "A ninja without throwing..." thread, it started as a minor disagreement on the idea, and blew up into a huge 200 post fest between like 4 people (me included) because the OP Simply did not listen to logic or how the idea he wanted simply would not fit in FFXI. Eventually some ideas came from the thread, but it was a mess.

I feel i should remind you i agree with a lot of your posts, but you appear to have a lot of misconceptions. These people will not just blindly "ALGEBRA" someone, Its when that someone begins throwing their misinformation at people like its correct that the other people will come in, and tell them they're wrong.

[Kensagaku]

You're right, Seriha. The "lesser offenses" as you put it aren't really that bad. Usually these get a reply along the lines of "actually, I believe this is the correct answer" and followed by a discussion. Some of our more mathematical folks tend to overdo it (I know my head starts spinning when numbers get thrown out in rapid sequence!) but for the most part, usually the "lesser offenses" are simply responded to in a civil discussion with a gentle guidance and/or extreme mathing that makes everyone go "What? @_@". Usually the former, thankfully.

However, stubbornly fighting against these discussions is what gets us worked up. You brought up the haste cap; that's a good argument in my favor here. Naturebeckles was constantly stating things like "It's best to TP in CHR, DEX, and STR gear because they're also used in WS mods" because they didn't like to gear swap. They discounted haste a good deal. People stated that it was best not to fulltime said gear because it would hurt your overall performance. This led to a whole stubborn argument about how hitting the haste cap isn't all that awesome and you shouldn't gear swap because you blink and don't get cures (Which is an annoying argument for me in particular... haven't we pushed the <stal> or <stpt> point enough? Is it so hard!? x_X) and so on and so forth. It's posters like this that get the brunt of ire from those of us who can't take the (for lack of better words, and I apologize) stupid that's being slammed at us time and again.

We don't expect people to know all of the game mechanics like some of the experts. I know I don't know everything. But people claiming to be "the best" with clearly inaccurate knowledge is likely to get the worst when they continue to insist that they're right despite all the obvious logic pointed out to them.

Edit: Karby, I'm mad at you. You ninja'd me.

Edited Edit: YOU EVEN USED MY EXAMPLE. GAH. ;~;

[Darka]

I hate that "It's a game!11!" argument, yeah it is, and it is for everyone else playing. But it's a community game, if one player sucks and falls behind, you drag your group down with you, suck up their very real time. In any community event, be it games or interaction with other people, you don't just get to do whatever you want. Spreading misinformation exacerbates the problem. I'd expect most people would feel that way.

[Seriha]

Sounds more like you and others got trolled in those particular threads, then. >.>

[Karbuncle]

Sounds more like you and others got trolled in those particular threads, then. >.>

LOL, If you were only there.

My god, If you were there.

I think the thread is still up in General somewhere, go find it, then visit their FFXIAH Page, Its not a troll by any means.

Stupid = Stupid, not Stupid = Troll.

Edit: Karby, I'm mad at you. You ninja'd me.

Edited Edit: YOU EVEN USED MY EXAMPLE. GAH. ;~;

You used it better^^

[Greatguardian]

Sounds more like you and others got trolled in those particular threads, then. >.>

I'd agree (being one of those involved in the above threads as well), if I didn't know that people can and will most definitely be that dense without trolling. The worst part about all of it, really, is that even if they were the ones trolling, it's the well-read players who are attempting to help the playerbase as a whole who end up getting smashed down by both the Community and the Rules on the forums.

Unfortunately, being stupid is not an offense. Spreading blatant misinformation is not an offense. Trying to tell every new player that signs up to the forums that "Goblins Aggro to Sound" is not an offense, but for some reason, correcting these people and attempting to clear up their lies is. It is no longer even a matter of keeping the conversation polite and mature when simply saying "You're Wrong", even when it is a statement of fact rather than a personal attack, becomes grounds for Moderation. Granted, I know this is not entirely the fault of the Moderation team either. This sort of forced overreaction happens when people treat the Report button like a Get Out Of Wrong Free Card.

The OP of this very thread has been known to make callous, abrasive personal attacks on multiple other posters himself. Worst of all, he does so without actually knowing what he's arguing about (See: "NIN AF3 Needs more AGI" thread in GD). While he'll probably report me for this post, I do legitimately feel it is a prolific form of irony that the first to cast stones regarding "Personal Attacks" is no less guilty than any of the people he's criticizing. The OP of this thread, in that thread, demonstrates the worst kind of personal attack, as not only does it deliberately put down another player but it also contributes absolutely nothing positive to the thread and, in fact, only serves to further the spread of misinformation.

Probably the simplest solution to this would be to ensure that the GMs and those moderating the forums have an understanding of the game they're moderating. While I've historically been an advocate of the GM staff from a customer service perspective, it would be impossible to deny that the staff has shown an impeccable lack of understanding of the game. From being asked "What zone is Despot in?" to other such things, it is quite possible that FFXI jargon is as alien to them as theoretical math is to most of the playerbase (let alone Algebra II, from personal experience).

For a player, a thread OP may as well be making a topic called "Gravity is wrong. I think we should fly using the Heart of the Cards and Oxygen causes cancer.", and of course responses are going to range from "Uh... what?" to "You're just ... dumb."

But to some GMs, that same thread may as well be called "The quantum fluctuations in the 11th dimension of space-time correlate inversely to the relativistic attraction between microorganisms", and they'd only be able to see that the responses to the OP were rude at best.

Unfortunately, at the rate things are going, the only intelligent, well-meaning posters on this board are going to be banned from the forums indefinitely. Once that happens, I honestly do pity whoever comes here expecting to find half-decent information or feedback from a playerbase that actually plays the game's content.

[Karbuncle]

As an Addendum, It feels like when someones reported, The person who deletes/Edits it doesn't even read the post.

I've seen some very well-thought-out nicely worded rebuttals to bad ideas deleted/modded simply because the person they were discussing with Abused the "Report" button.

Feels kinda like "oh he's got 4 reports, Better just delete it and send him an Email telling him to stop, Who needs to read if its a legit report?"

I don't say this is true for everything, But it feels like it after reading some things that have been reported/deleted...

[Sayelle]

I <3 you Krabnuckle and Kens.

On topic, the sad thing is that I'm sure sometime today that Rambus will come in here and start spewing fire from his mouth and shooting lasers from his eyes and yelling about how we are all missing the point. Which is really sad because I think for the most part we are having a decent conversation about forum behaviors and the root cause behind them.

[Tamoa]

You brought up the haste cap; that's a good argument in my favor here. Naturebeckles was constantly stating things like "It's best to TP in CHR, DEX, and STR gear because they're also used in WS mods" because they didn't like to gear swap. They discounted haste a good deal. People stated that it was best not to fulltime said gear because it would hurt your overall performance. This led to a whole stubborn argument about how hitting the haste cap isn't all that awesome and you shouldn't gear swap because you blink and don't get cures (Which is an annoying argument for me in particular... haven't we pushed the <stal> or <stpt> point enough? Is it so hard!? x_X) and so on and so forth. It's posters like this that get the brunt of ire from those of us who can't take the (for lack of better words, and I apologize) stupid that's being slammed at us time and again.

Not only that, but her very first post in that thread was effectively insulting everyone that acknowledges haste as a valuable stat, by calling them (us) haste whores.

Bleh, found the thread and the post:

I can't believe one of you posted a guide which spawned this entire pointless discussion about the specifics over haste. Maybe I'll just stick to not being a haste whore....

Here is the thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...e-misinformed.

When you make a post like that in a thread which is meant to be informative (and it was, up until that point), adding absolutely nothing of value but indirectly saying "u r dumb lolololol" - you basically reap what you sow.

[Kensagaku]

As an Addendum, It feels like when someones reported, The person who deletes/Edits it doesn't even read the post.

I've seen some very well-thought-out nicely worded rebuttals to bad ideas deleted/modded simply because the person they were discussing with Abused the "Report" button.

Feels kinda like "oh he's got 4 reports, Better just delete it and send him an Email telling him to stop, Who needs to read if its a legit report?"

I don't say this is true for everything, But it feels like it after reading some things that have been reported/deleted...

I agree with you on this point, Karby. I've seen a number of posts just go completely poof when they've contained relevant information. In the past mods have taken the time to edit posts because they went against the forum guidelines, and that's reasonable. But I haven't seen many edits lately; most of the time they're just up and deleted. That does bother me. =\