To the posters of this fourm, understand constructive criticism

[Darka]

Nobody cares if the OP of a stupid thread doesn't believe the people who correct him, but it gets tiring reiterating the same stuff to the same people. The very OP of this thread has posted incorrect information, denies any rebuttal and from as little as comments like "you're a moron" or "keep doing it wrong" (since there hasn't actually been any horribly offensive retorts) will report that user immediately. Then climb on a high horse and make these threads, ironic right? No it's not the end of the world, same can be said to those mashing report buttons from little comments, get over it, but at least research before saying something or it does just fall into the category of stupid. Then you will be told it's stupid. Don't be the type to refute and deny all criticism then make a thread about how others should give/receive criticism.
And as said above^ There's a lot of people who don't post here, and I'm sure we all want the best out of the game, so it is in our right to defend and debase ideas that could end up being implemented and destroying the game.

[Seriha]

Well, think of it this way, if you perceive they're being outright reasonable, they can't report a post that isn't made if people just ignore it. I've long since disagreed with upping the Abyssea cap, as an example given earlier, as it would just shift people back into niche party groups like syncing to colibri or astral burning, which on their own carry their own job discriminations. Rather, I tend to favor buffing other areas to wind up in line with some kind of complained standard, which roughly doubling out-world EXP was a step toward. I still think SE needs to do more, particularly when it comes to FoV in the 55-65 range, but I can at least accept it as a start.

On some level, I think all of this is asking for more participation from the community team. In part, they're often a phantom presence until the hammer comes down or they have something report. People might be less inclined to report or just generally post vindictively if they can see some of the CT has been chatting actively in a thread. We don't really know where they personally stand on some issues, and while impartiality may be considered a good thing at times, as said, we're all human. We know they have their biases and its always slightly possible that our majority concerns could get drowned out by a personal opinion when it comes time to ferry our "issues" to the JP side.

[Tamoa]

What Ken and Karbuncle are saying, is definitely true. Sometimes the stubbornness and the butthurt "NO U!" attitude of some misinformed people on this forum makes me want to slam my head into my desk in sheer frustration - that's when I go to BG to vent, lol.

As for the OP of this thread - he is throwing rocks from inside a glass house, he is certainly no better than those he calls out when you read this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-and-Realistic.

[Eeek]

Forum contributions aren't always immediate like that, and we can't even begin to fathom the impact our words make, good or bad, to those who simply lurk.

I believe you worry too much about things outside your control. While we shouldn't completely ignore the impact of hurtful words, it's naive to pretend that they don't exist or hope that they never will exist. People will be people, no matter the venue of communication.

I will never be convinced that malicious trolling makes a forum healthier and knowing that some random guy in his mid-20s decided to pwn a teenager isn't much of a win in my book. You'll never know what they'd do after, be it harm to themselves or transferring that rage and disappointment to others within reach.

While I agree with the sentiment, this is a clear strawman argument. Not every person trolling is in their 20s, and not every person "under attack" is a defenseless teenager.

In the end, a little FFXI misinformation is not the apocalypse.

This sentiment is antithetical to humanity's ongoing, millennia-long search for knowledge in all its forms. While FFXI information is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, the search and constant refinement of our collective information on FFXI is a reflection of humanity's curiosity and drive to discover and understand the world.

If you think the trolling here is bad, spend some time reading academic journals or attending conferences. You'd think that academics would engage in the purest of debate, but instead, it's no less combative than discussions here. It's as political as the discussions here. The same factions form in academia and they have here.

To illustrate that point, spend some time googling (if you're so inclined) and look into all the personal attacks suffered by Darwin after the publication of On the Origin of Species.

[Karbuncle]

Well, think of it this way, if you perceive they're being outright reasonable, they can't report a post that isn't made if people just ignore it. I've long since disagreed with upping the Abyssea cap, as an example given earlier, as it would just shift people back into niche party groups like syncing to colibri or astral burning, which on their own carry their own job discriminations. Rather, I tend to favor buffing other areas to wind up in line with some kind of complained standard, which roughly doubling out-world EXP was a step toward. I still think SE needs to do more, particularly when it comes to FoV in the 55-65 range, but I can at least accept it as a start.

Edit: See Eeeks.

Again, I'd like to say i agree with you on a lot of points, I don't think the first step should be angry responses, or name calling. But I also try to say, 9/10, The people who first resort to "name calling" and "Anger" are generally the people who come in threads like this saying they were "Trolled".

I hate to say this because i know I'll probably be reported for even speaking his name, But Rambus, the OP, has been guilty of basically flaming and insulting anyone who disagrees with his idea, No matter what. He's reported people for literally just disagreeing with him. He's actually the only person on my Blocklist, cause in another thread i tried to explain something too him, and he got me so upset i lost my temper. So instead of losing my temper again, I've resorted to just not ever responding to him.

And to KORPG, no, I don't think anyone will immediately reject someone based no past interactions, This is an unfair assumption. the only person who has earned that status is Hordecore, Cause he is most certainly an obvious troll. I personally judge each post individually, I can't remember any of your names let alone the generic Avatars, So i look at each post differently, I remember a few of you, like 4-5, but everyone else looks the same.

What you're likely seeing is repeat offenses. When someone makes a terrible idea, and in turn receives "constructive criticism", and goes on a "YOU'RE A TROLL" rampage, he loses some credibility, If he repeatedly does these things in multiple threads (Read: Hordecore) people lose respect for them. this isn't exclusive to here, thats life. Thats how things work in the real word. If you do stupid things over and over, you lose credibility, and thats how life works.

I always give people a chance regardless, But you cannot blame someone if they see a name and go "Oh great", especially if time and time over that said person has proven to be hot-tempered, or unreasonable. Its like on BG, i'll use Thorny as an Example. The dudes an over-the-top dick who felt the need to repeatedly shove his knoweldge down everyones throat. no one sees a Thorny post and expects anything other than high-horse offensive 12-year-old-insult crap. He was knowledgeable, but he was a dick.

What i'm trying to say, just like real life, everyone develops a "Persona". after multiple interactions, you can pretty much know how someone will react. But in fairness, I'm sure a lot of people, I know i do, give each and every post its own logical reasonable chance.


(OMG WALL OF TEXT I RAMBLE TOO MUCH)

[Eeek]

(OMG WALL OF TEXT I RAMBLE TOO MUCH)

You made me read words. Lots and lots of words!

/reported

[Darka]

obv needs a hobby

ilu <3

(wat I need 10 characters ignore this part)

[Kensagaku]

(Fellow Wall'o'text)
(OMG WALL OF TEXT I RAMBLE TOO MUCH)

I know your pain. =(

[Eeek]

I know your pain. =(

Not enough words.

/reported

[Seriha]

I guess in the end, I'm not quite defending those who are deserving what they get, but rather future targets once the current are run off, banned, or whatever. Using the same tactics for "lesser offenses against the truth" can get pretty murky and lead to an inhospitable atmosphere where people might be too afraid to post for fear of ridicule over even the simplest questions. Hell, I know I've been targeted before for my prolonged desire for RDM (melee) buffs or just even posting moderately on Alla for 8+ years, but I've perhaps been too stubborn to just roll over and die because some angry kiddies disagreed and do bring my own fights to them.

Eventually, some do just need to sit back and remember this is a game, though. I know that statement is lit dynamite to some, but not everyone plays to relive their days of Algebra II. Some just wanna see cute moogles doing moogle-y things, so of course they won't know about haste caps, fTP, and so on.