Mud Spikes, Wind Spikes, and Aqua Spikes

[Karbuncle]

no my good sir. You have lost the argument, but your pride does not allow you to Admit it. You are the one who does not understand. Your best argument is quoting Swords from page 1, and Even I've debunked that.

Now you're making 1-liner Responses and Ignoring my very long very informative post about 3 replies up on the Difference between "Things that seem the same" and "Things that fall into the same Category". Which completely invalidates all your arguments up to this point.

[Saefinn]

Karb,

Reflect would work. Or some kind of enfeeble barrier. Whatever a PLD would most benefit from without being game breaking.

Also, Rambus,

I think the issue might be semantics. 'Spikes' is perhaps the easiest term to use to refer to a line of elemental based spells that hasn't been given a specific name. If Aquaveil, Stoneskin and Blink were actually spikes SE would have called them so, they can't call a set of what's half spikes, half buffs, spikes, because as already established, they're not spikes. What's being argued is not that they're spikes by any kind of strict definition, but they belong to the same line of spells people are calling 'spikes' because it's a simple collective term that ought to theoretically flow the conversation better, even if inaccurate, but it's not an uncommon use of language.


As for Dark/Light, they are elements, yes, and DRK gets dread spikes. This only creates argument for PLD to get their own exclusive spell in the same line of magic. Who knows, they probably didn't think they needed to include dark and light elements at first because they either couldn't think what to do with it or couldn't find a use for them - or at least not until later levels (would dread spikes be a suitable level 30 spell?). If they were making up JUST elemental spikes, they would have done the whole wheel, it seems it was intentional to not do the whole wheel in just spikes, but only half of it, leaving the other half to offer resistance.

[Rambus]

no my good sir. You have lost the argument, but your pride does not allow you to Admit it. You are the one who does not understand. Your best argument is quoting Swords from page 1, and Even I've debunked that.

Now you're making 1-liner Responses and Ignoring my very long very informative post about 3 replies up on the Difference between "Things that seem the same" and "Things that fall into the same Category". Which completely invalidates all your arguments up to this point.

that is your view, be honest i am right, it is very simple, you can only have one spike effect on you.

stoneskin blink and aquaviel stack on spikes

then there is this:

I think some don't grasp the concept of "Spikes" as a general game term, not exclusively pertaining to FFXI's spike spells.

Spike terms in games, originated from items like Spike breastplate or spiked shield. Any time you tried to attack someone with such armor, you stood a decent chance of being impaled or injured by the spikes if they were to bash or tackle you. So in game terms, there is no such thing as a defensive "Spikes" unless it retaliates with damage in some way. I don't think I would mind seeing new forms of spike spells, but I'm not sure they would be practical where many of the newer NM's have become increasingly resistant or immune to debuffs.

you are in your own world, i lost agurment, lol ok

[Karbuncle]

Again, Your best Argument is Quoting Swords. Good job. you're best debate is Semantics over what Spikes means.

To other guy:
Yeah, Reflect Wouldn't be awful. If the Accuracy was based on the PLDs Spell, most nukes would resist/suck so its not too broken.

Edit: Sorry if my responses slow, In Limbus. Thanks

[Rambus]

I am going to explain this as slow as i can:

when you cast reprisal you gain it's effect, then you have shiva or sub blm or w/e and cast ice spikes it overdies reprisal
so reprisal is light spikes, like how you can only have one en spell on your slef, it is the same line of spells.

same with shock spikes or any form of spikes spell you can only have one on yourself

then....:
stoneskin blink and aquaviel stack on spikes

there is muli forms of stoneskin and blink, you also have a different wind buff called haste.

Quoting him is not my strongest agurement, this point is.

i do not know why you bring in Semantics, i think that is what you are trying to do

it is illogical to have 5-7 forms of stoneskin, 4-6 forms of blink, 3 forms of ice spikes, 2 forms of thunder spikes, 1 form of aquavail and 1 form of fire spikes and say they are in the same family.

you have en spells, and en II spells they are the same family

[Karbuncle]

Yah, You just don't get it. You really don't. I'm done arguing with you. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Edit: I should probably note so you stop wasting your time. You are now the first addition to my Block list! yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Party!

*Ceremonial Music*
*Cheesy Inspirational music*

[Saefinn]

that is your view, be honest i am right, it is very simple, you can only have one spike effect on you.

stoneskin blink and aquaviel stack on spikes

then there is this:


you are in your own world, i lost agurment, lol ok

To be fair. Aquaveil/Stoneskin/Blink are stackable because stacking them offers no conflict because their elements aren't effecting any damage dealt to the enemy. The reason spikes don't stack is because you can't have two elements in effect at once, the same with en-spells and the same with weather spells. It doesn't mean they're to be treated as a separate line of spells, it was already suggested that they've been split to be half offensive, half defensive. So naturally, there's going to be a few differences. It also makes sense in that SE hasn't done any other spikes, when logically, if their line of spells were JUST spikes, then we'd see them for each element, like with helices. It would appear that SE went another way with that one. I know people keep using 'spikes' to umbrella blink/aquaveil/stoneskin and the spikes spells, but as I've said, it's just semantics, so I think defining 'spikes' is necessary to the conversation, it's just down to how language sometimes works - a term is used to umbrella something outside of its definition for ease of conversation, it has already been stated what is being talked about, so ideally, people ought to be able to understand what is meant - or at least I didn't have any difficulty understanding when I entered this thread.


But what it should really be about is: should SE offer fire/thunder/ice based defensive spells and should they offer water/earth/air offensive spikes? I think as said, it ought work both ways.

[Rambus]

Yah, You just don't get it. You really don't.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Enjoy living in your own crazy knowledge-less imaginary world where you can never be wrong.

I would not derail this with you to show how illogical you are if i was wrong.

you do understand bars, songs etc etc have elements right?

how come there is 8 en spells but 3 spikes?

etc etc, so illogical and unfounded claim.

it was also illrevlent to the thread, noodles first post, should never been stated to wind up here.

To be fair. Aquaveil/Stoneskin/Blink are stackable because stacking them offers no conflict because their elements aren't effecting any damage dealt to the enemy.

more reason they are not "spike family"

But what it should really be about is: should SE offer fire/thunder/ice based defensive spells and should they offer water/earth/air offensive spikes? I think as said, it ought work both ways.

already exists

[Swords]

I think this has gone past the point of a debate on ideas for potential spikes spells, but rather become a "I'm right, your wrong. My ideas are brilliant, yours are dumb" debate, at least that's kind of what it seems to have turned into.

Rambus my explanation of spikes spells was entirely for clarification, which I kind of hoped would make them think it was simply just a matter of differing opinions on what exactally counts as a spike spell and resolve the dispute.

It doesn't really matter wether or not Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel were intended as a "spike" spell in SE's eyes, they are there and avaliable for use. It doesn't really matter if we really do need more spike spells or not. Nothing wrong with wishful thinking or throwing new ideas out there to try and make the game more interesting, it's not like the idea was game breaking after all.

[Karbuncle]

But what it should really be about is: should SE offer fire/thunder/ice based defensive spells and should they offer water/earth/air offensive spikes? I think as said, it ought work both ways.

i wouldn't be opposed to this. Its just difficult giving meaningful non-damaging buffs to Thunder, Fire, and ice spells. The "wind/etc Spikes" would be simple, its the other side of the Balance that would be difficult.

For instance, Ice could add a Resistance to magic, but we have shell for that. However, Defensive buffs are hard to imagine when just about everything is covered. Though it could become "Offensive Self-buffs", but also the "Wind/Water/Earth" Spikes could do Defensive things. Example.

"Earth Spikes" = Does no Damage. inflicts Enemy With Slow when hit
"Wind Spikes" = Does no damage, Weighs target Down when hit
"Water Spikes" = Does no Damage, Poisons Target when hit

"Thunder buff" = Increases Critical hit Rate Small Amount (5%)
"Ice Buff" = Increases Magic Attack a Small Amount (5MAB)
"Fire Buff" = Increases Attack a Small Amount. (5% attack)


So the 3 "offensive" types get a "Defensive/offense Buff" while the 3 "Defensive types" get a "Defensive Spikes".

I'm wording this weird but i think you see where I'm going.

Rambus:



So Ice Spikes, Shock Spikes and Blaze Spikes aren't in same family, as there's 3 types of ice spikes, but only 1 form of blaze spikes?

Though you are right about reprisal. It is a part of the same family. Offers a form of reflect and a defensive buff for shield use.

You know, You just thought of something i didn't. Its not a completed Circled.

Wind = Blink
Earth = Stoneskin
Water = Aquaviel
Ice = Ice Spikes
Thunder = Shock Spikes
Fire = Blaze Spikes
Light = Reprisal
Dark = Dread Spikes

Circle completed!