Mud Spikes, Wind Spikes, and Aqua Spikes

[Saefinn]

Well, if we're going by that then I guess 'dread' just adds a dark element.

Fire - Blaze Spikes
Water - Aquaveil
Thunder - Shock Spikes
Ice - Ice Spikes
Stone - Stoneskin
Air - Blink
Dark - Dread Spikes (/Endark), Dark Knight exclusive.

All we'd need is a Light Element version for PLD, like you get Enlight. A buff - perhaps something that absorbs enfeebles or offers a buff PLD's need - as a PLD10, I wouldn't really be able to comment on what a PLD needs right now, but if you've got a buff that'll absorb silence, sleep, dispel, paralysis and stun on a Paladin, as I can image them being annoying enfeebles for a PLD tank that perhaps hinders some of their ability to sustain hate - maybe a PLD could comment. And because it would wear once it has absorbed its limit and would be PLD exclusive it wouldn't be making bar-spells or -na spells redundant either.

I understand the Dread Spikes was added much later and has nothing to do with the original set, other than to work as an attempt to add to Dark Knight's spell casting side of things, but I think logically speaking, after dread spikes you need a PLD exclusive light elemental buff that works to the same nature as other spells just to remain balanced.

Or make a set of buffs and a set of spikes for each element as just said. It's working out how to do it. I guess my PLD version of spikes would be one,

[Karbuncle]

abyssea elements are fusion types, seem to relfect on level 2 scs, i was not talking about abyssea.

"i want to agure the 6 elements and forget light and dark because it suits my view"

ok

unfounded

Its because Light and Dark Elementals Are Fundamentally Different. Than the 6 Core-element Types. And i already addressed your LIght Elemental. Its a WHM by class. It appears to cast all WHM based buffs on itself to an Extent. Where as the DRK elemental appears to be a DRK/BLM type. and as such has no buffs.

The other 6 Elementals Appear to follow now job-Specific Casting Type. Able to cast their own Unique Buffs on themselves (Aquav/Blink/Stonesk/spikes). Is what I'm trying to convey.

Are you purposefully being thick headed just so people lose their temper at you and eventually get banned from here because they eventually snap and go crazy toward you?

Its working if you are.

Edit: (For Rambus)Dread Spikes was added nearly 6 years after the Original Elemental Buffs. They are irrelevant. They have nothing to do with the Original 6 Elemental Buffs Specific to the Elemental Family Enemies. They are, For lack of better words, an Uncreative name given to a spell designed to make Dark Knights recover HP lost from hate/Souleater.

This is proven by how Original-area Dark Element Enemies do not have Access to said spell, Only Abyssea-Dwelling Elementals do. DRK mobs get it, the Dark-Elemental Does not. As such is it not a Core-Elemental Buff of the 6 Elementals (Light/Dark Excluded).

(For Guy above me)
If we were going down that Path, Light would require a Unique Buff. Since Dark filled another "Spikes", Light would need a "Buff" to balance the 8 Elements instead of the 6. So maybe Reflect? Seems Light-Based. its a "Defensive" buff to say.

[Razushu]

abyssea elements are fusion types, seem to relfect on level 2 scs, i was not talking about abyssea.

"i want to agure the 6 elements and forget light and dark because it suits my view"
you do not grasp what a spike concepts is, see the guy i quoted from page 1.

ok

unfounded

who cares what "spikes" are in other games this is FFXI so what spikes are here is the only thing that matters.
For someone who throws around the accusation of ignoring points you're very guilty of it yourself

[Karbuncle]

who cares what "spikes" are in other games this is FFXI so what spikes are here is the only thing that matters.
For someone who throws around the accusation of ignoring points you're very guilty of it yourself

He's at the stage in a fight when he realizes he's wrong. But he's too proud to admit it. Now we'll argue for 8 pages until we get more people to support us. Then He'll call us all Elitists or say he's being Ignored.

It happens in every thread someone argues with him.

[Rambus]

Its because Light and Dark Elementals Are Fundamentally Different. Than the 6 Core-element Types. And i already addressed your LIght Elemental. Its a WHM by class. It appears to cast all WHM based buffs on itself to an Extent. Where as the DRK elemental appears to be a DRK/BLM type. and as such has no buffs.

The other 6 Elementals Appear to follow now job-Specific Casting Type. Able to cast their own Unique Buffs on themselves (Aquav/Blink/Stonesk/spikes). Is what I'm trying to convey.

Are you purposefully being thick headed just so people lose their temper at you and eventually get banned from here because they eventually snap and go crazy toward you?

Its working if you are.

are you saying drk/blm? as is /blm sub level? that is wrong.
WG elementals cast dread spikes and PC elementals cast all abs spells ( not sure of new ones prob didnt update it) with sleepga II. they also use a thunder base spell stun.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] you can only have one spike spell on you ( inclines light/reprisal and dark/dread spikes) if they where meant to be in the same family like bars, weather, en spells, with stoneskin aquavail and blink they would not be able to stack. haste is wind spell but light elementals cast it and not wind, so that alone should reflect elementals cannot be used to reflect buff lines of spells.

[Razushu]

He's at the stage in a fight when he realizes he's wrong. But he's too proud to admit it. Now we'll argue for 8 pages until we get more people to support us. Then He'll call us all Elitists or say he's being Ignored.

It happens in every thread someone argues with him.

LOL I hate that stage in an argument it's the worst feeling in the world.

[Razushu]

are you saying drk/blm? as is /blm sub level? that is wrong.
WG elementals cast dread spikes and PC elementals cast all abs spells ( not sure of new ones prob didnt update it) with sleepga II. they also use a thunder base spell stun.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] you can only have one spike spell on you ( inclines light/reprisal and dark/dread spikes) if they where meant to be in the same family like bars, weather, en spells, with stoneskin aquavail and blink they would not be able to stack. haste is wind spell but light elementals cast it and not wind, so that alone should reflect elementals cannot be used to reflect buff lines of spells.

Dude light and dark elementals function differently from the other six

[Karbuncle]

are you saying drk/blm? as is /blm sub level? that is wrong.
WG elementals cast dread spikes and PC elemetnals cast all abs spells ( not sure of new ones prob didnt update it) with sleepga II. they also use a thunder base spell stun.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.] you can only have one spike spell on you ( inclines light/reprisal and dark/dread spikes) if they where ment to be in the same family like bars, weather, en spells, with stoneskin aquavail and blink they would not be able to stack. haste is wind spell but light elementals cast it and not wind, so that alone should reflect elementals cannot be used to reflect buff lines of spells.

Please, Listen Carefully.

There Are Six Core Elements in Vana'Diel. They are. Fire, Water, Thunder, Earth, Wind, and Ice. These Elements are Represented throughout Early Vana'diel as Elementals. Each Elemental gets its own Unique Buff Specific to its Element. Light and Dark Elementals themselves are Unique Opposing Elements. And until recently neither had a Unique buff. Light Elementals Borrowed buffs from the "Defensive" buff Elementals, Including amongst other things Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel. Now, These Key Elemental buffs are:

Wind = Blink
Ice = Ice Spikes
Fire = Blaze Spikes
Thunder = Shock Spikes
Earth = Stoneskin
Water = Aquaviel

These Unique Spells have been adapted to be considered the "Elemental buff" line of Spells. Spells Specific to core Elements of the Elemental Family. They are in Balance with eachother, Containing Three Offensive Buffs, and Three Defensive buffs.

Now, Later in the life off FFXI, Nearly 6-7 Years into the Game. Spells like Dread Spikes Were added. To keep with the game, This Spell was not added to the Original Elements of the FFXI World. However, Post a Certain point (WoTG, Abyssea) They were Added to Dark Elementals, Likely just to make them harder and give them a Buff so they didn't feel left out.
----------------------------------------------------------


Now to Really Repeat this, Every spell in the game has an Element, But its not Relevant to the 6 Core Elemental Buffs. Spikes/Stonesking/etc. They are a Different Series. Think of them like this

you have a Spell series, lets say "Fire". They are
"Fire"
"Fire II"
"Fire III"
"Fire IV"
"Fire V"

These are the "Fire" Line of Spells. They are Spells that fall into the Category "Single Target "Fire" Spells". You have other Spells similar to this though, like "Firaga". But they are Different, and are not "Single Target Fire Spells". They may appear Similar. But one is "Fire" the other is "Flare" or "Firaga". While similar in type, are different in some ways. "Flare" is an "Ancient Magic" like "Freeze" its its own unique category of spell., while "Firaga" is Area of Effect, like "Thundaga, Diaga, etc". Do you see the Correlation yet? How spells, though seemingly of the same type (I.e haste/blink) fall under different categories?


In the same way, the "elemental Buffs" are their own tier of "Spells". think of them not like "All buffs" think of them as "Core Elemental Buffs" they are

"Blink"
"Stoneskin"
"Aqauveil"
"Shock Spikes"
"Blaze Spikes"
"Ice Spikes".

These are all considered "Elemental Buffs". not like the "Fire" Spell example, there are other buffs, for instance, "Wind" has "Haste", But its not a Part of the "Elemental Buff" Series. Its a Different Spell. Its shown by the fact Wind Elementals do not cast Said Spell on themselves.

Its not a Difficult concept to Grasp. Dread Spikes was added years after these Core Elemental Buffs, as Such is an Irrelevant Spell. If it were to become Relevant, We would also need to see a Light-based-Defensive Buff Unique to Light-elemental in order for a True Balance to be maintained. SE probably thought "Light Elementals can cast Pro/Shell/etc, but dark Elemental is the only one of the 8 who cannot cast a buff, we added that DRK spell Dread Spikes, Lets give it to them in Later zones".

Dread Spikes was at best an uncreative name given to a spell for DRKs, It had/has nothing to do with the 6 Elemental Buffs, They simply share a similar naming pattern. but it in itself, Regardless of being used later on, Is its own unique line of Buffs, separate form the "Elemental Buff" Series above.

Please, really try to understand what I'm saying. I'm really trying to explain it best i can.

[Rambus]

light and dark are elements, stop forgetting them because it suits your agurment.

and there is plenty of light, dark, fire, earth, water, wind, ice, thunder buffs.

there is also meny forms of stoneskin and blink and yet one fire spikes? why?

but..but .. it was not like that in RoZ omg! what you think this thread is about? completing the line

[Karbuncle]

light and dark are elements, stop forgetting them because it suits your agurment.

I'm not Forgetting them. I've Addressed them, You just don't get it.

Their "A.I" Is fundamentally different from The Other 6 Elementals. I'll try to make this as kindergarten as possible.

Think of "Light and Dark elementals" like Mage Quadavs. They have a different A.I than say, a Warrior Quadav. Now think of the "6 Elementals" as "Warrior Quadavs".

"Warrior Quadavs" Cast no spells, and immediately enter Melee Range, while "Mage Quadavs" stand out of Melee range until 75% HP, they also Nuke, or Buff themselves.

while Similar Families, They are Fundamnetally different in both A.I and behavior. The Same can be said for Light/Dark Elementals, and the 6 Basic Element-Elementals.

They are of the same Family, but have different A.I/behavior patterns.