Mud Spikes, Wind Spikes, and Aqua Spikes

[Freebytes]

Blaze Spikes / Ice Spikes / Shock Spikes are offensive.
Aquaveil / Stoneskin / Blink are defensive.

Nonetheless, there is a possibility of the original suggestion of the op. That is, to add corresponding buffs for each of the previously offensive elements. Therefore, you can have your Aqua Spikes, Mud Spikes, and whatever you called the air spikes, but you would also need to make a defensive set for Fire, Ice, and Thunder. This would resolve this discrepancy, i.e., you can have Flame which would increase your defense against paralyze, Snow Sheer which would provide an increase to spells cast while engaged, and Thunder Cloud which would decrease your HP by 2 while increasing your MP by 1 while in effect. These are just examples of the alternate way of looking at the possibility of more spikes, of course.

[Razushu]

I never said that I also did not view the current spells as complementing each other. I proposed an idea to increase the ranges of them, wherein that theory is eliminated. SE themselves lowered that theory's likeliness when they added Scholar. Stoneskin, Blink, and Aquaveil all work with Accession while spike spells do not. You can also have stoneskin, blink, and aquaveil up at the same time while you may only have 1 spike spell-type (this includes reprisal and dread spikes) up at any given time. The spike spells also deal damage but offer no self-relevant buffs, they only damage the enemy in one way or another. Yes, that is the argument of yours that Stoneskin and the like are the defensive versions but, again, this is not even close to being remotely reason enough to deny the idea of expanding each side of this "coin theory".

SCH getting them changes nothing really they got them VERY recently and it doesn't mean there not getting the other 3.
Seems to be the the most likely reason for the limit to 1 spikes or en spell at a time would be they deal damage.
Lots of things don't work with accession making that point moot.
they may expand the set but they're doesn't really seem to be a need imho.

[Rambus]

Well this sucks having to reply twice GD PC but here I go.

To sum up my theory

elemental wheel buffs (an already complete set)

blaze/ice/shock spikes - offensive
Aquaveil/SS/blink - defensive

evidence for this

BLM offensive mage - offensive buffs
WHM defensive support mage - defensive buffs
RDM mixed mage - both buffs

both sides come together as a set i.e you get one from a side you get the other two.
which pokes a hole in the link between these spells and dread spikes/reprisal as no job that gets the other spikes get these, although it is possible that they added these two to turn 6 into 8 elemental buff spells although Phalanx is probably a better fit lol.
Also theres the fact the 6 celestial elements function somewhat independantly of dark/light so it's probable that a complete set of elemental buffs be they spikes or not would be 6 spells not 8 anyway (see ninjutsu elemental wheel and barspells).

haste? shell? protect? phalanx? light spikes? dark spikes?

unfounded

and whm able to buff people with 2 different stoneskins? explain that how that supports your view.

i guess we need 7 other elements for stun too.

[Razushu]

haste? shell? protect? phalanx? light spikes? dark spikes?

unfounded

and whm able to buff people with 2 different stoneskins? explain that how that supports your view.

i guess we need 7 other elements for stun too.

SENSE make some PLEASE!!!

I'm not talking about haste protect and shell etc. yeah we get it theres eight elements and many spells are linked to them my point is that sometimes in this games theres what we could call "families" of spells that are linked sometimes they all share an element i.e Cures sometimes theres 1 for each element i.e bars en-s. your point here is both rambling and irrelevant.

I'm arguing the fact that the six spells I keep refering to are a set.

WHM can't cast Stoneskin on anyone let alone 2 types this is about the SPELL stoneskin you know the one macroed as /ma "Stoneskin" <me> not the stonskin effect so I fail to see how cureskin and use of acession are relevant to this.

stun??????????????? where the hell did this come from? this is the first mention of stun in this thread as far as I can see.

[Rambus]

SENSE make some PLEASE!!!

I'm not talking about haste protect and shell etc. yeah we get it theres eight elements and many spells are linked to them my point is that sometimes in this games theres what we could call "families" of spells that are linked sometimes they all share an element i.e Cures sometimes theres 1 for each element i.e bars en-s. your point here is both rambling and irrelevant.

I'm arguing the fact that the six spells I keep refering to are a set.

WHM can't cast Stoneskin on anyone let alone 2 types this is about the SPELL stoneskin you know the one macroed as /ma "Stoneskin" <me> not the stonskin effect so I fail to see how cureskin and use of acession are relevant to this.

stun??????????????? where the hell did this come from? this is the first mention of stun in this thread as far as I can see.

you can have spikes and stoneskin/aquaviel/blink on so they are not the same family.

I was killing your argument that whm only got defensive buffs, haste is for offence.
Haste vs blink does not suit your theory so you are ignoring it.

afflatus solace+ cure is a stun effect. whm sub sch to give stoneskin to others.
whm have 2 different stoneskin effects.

there is only one stun element, why does everything need to hold all 8 elements?

[Karbuncle]

There will never be Mud-Spikes (Stupid idea), Water Spikes (Even dumber), or Wind Spikes (the fk?) because they're all terrible ideas and the first post is right.

The basic Core Element Spells i have always considered as "Spike Chain" were "Blaze Spikes" "Shock Spikes" "Ice Spikes", "Blink" "Stoneskin" "Aquaviel".

To further show how right the first poster was.

Fire Elemental - Casts Blazespikes/Enfire
Water Elemental - Casts Aquaviel/Enwater
Thunder Elemental - Casts Shock Spokes/Enthunder
Earth Elemental - Casts Stoneskin/Enstone
Wind Elemental - Casts Blink/Enaero
Ice Elemental - Casts Icespikes/Enblizzard.

Do you see how Each Elemental uses its "spikes" line buff? This is because thats how SE envisioned it. Fire/Ice/Lightning = Offensive "Spikes". Earth/wind/water = Defensive Buffs For only these 6 spells. This is proof. You can deny it all you want, SE intended for those 6 spells to be what you are calling "spikes". This is your proof, Stop debating it. wind Elementals dont Haste themselves, Etc. those arguments are Stupid and Irrelevant and bring this discussion to a whole new level of stupid.

The above buffs are the only buffs those Elementals cast on themselves. Stop and look at the connection, Your point is now invalid.



I won't touch, Dread Spikes seems to have been added as a far far afterthought nearly 6 years later to give DRKs a nice spell. They have nothing to do with the 6-elemental Spell Line buffs.








HOWEVER

If we were going to add "Spikes" to each of those, We would also, TO MAINTAIN EQUIVALENCE, add "buffs" to Fire/Lightning/Ice element. So what would they be? Not they can't be offensive in any way. they need to be Defensive Buffs.

Fire? Can't think of anything :|
Ice? Would think "ice Shield" maybe a Stone-skin for Magic.
Thunder? Can't think of Anything :|

[Rambus]

light elementals cast haste (wind spell) and don't cast light spikes reprisal no en light

newer dark elemetals use dread spikes and have no en dark

so what is your point? they are not the same famliy of buffs because you can have "Blink" "Stoneskin" "Aquaviel". with a spike spell on.

why are you ingoring these points because it does not suit your view?

and there is fire, thunder, and water buffs.

I think some don't grasp the concept of "Spikes" as a general game term, not exclusively pertaining to FFXI's spike spells.

Spike terms in games, originated from items like Spike breastplate or spiked shield. Any time you tried to attack someone with such armor, you stood a decent chance of being impaled or injured by the spikes if they were to bash or tackle you. So in game terms, there is no such thing as a defensive "Spikes" unless it retaliates with damage in some way.

I don't think I would mind seeing new forms of spike spells, but I'm not sure they would be practical where many of the newer NM's have become increasingly resistant or immune to debuffs.

this is more reason they are not spikes.

[Razushu]

you can have spikes and stoneskin/aquaviel/blink on so they are not the same family.

I was killing your argument that whm only got defensive buffs, haste is for offence.
Haste vs blink does not suit your theory so you are ignoring it.

afflatus solace+ cure is a stun effect. whm sub sch to give stoneskin to others.
whm have 2 different stoneskin effects.

there is only one stun element, why does everything need to hold all 8 elements?

when I said defensive buffs I was refering to the 3 we keep coming back to lol.
As in WHM is the defensive/support mage so of this family of spells they shall have the defensive side

the only thing you're killing is my patience.
You can have blaze spikes and haste too your point is as irrelevant here as ever.
I'm not ignoring it I'm aware it's there I use it often as both my jobs lol.
Your point of there being many spells per element still lacks.... well a point I'm aware of this fact, everyone who gets past level 10 is probably aware of this fact, that doesn't stop certain spells from falling into subgroupings together within this system.

Cure + stun?

Again a /ja that adds a mini stoneskin effect and a ja that augments certain spells when used hold no relevance here we're discussing the possiblity/probabilty that blaze/ice/shockspikes and aquaveil/stoneskin/blink form a elemental wheel of buffs.

back to stun again... there is only one stun spell and it has a specific effect for your attempt at comparision to work here we'd need 5/7 other spells of the other elements that each did a different thing

[Karbuncle]

light elementals cast haste and don't cast light spikes reprisal no en light

newer dark elemetals use dread spikes and have no en dark

so what is your point? they are not the same famliy of buffs because you can have "Blink" "Stoneskin" "Aquaviel". with a spike spell on.

why are you ingoring these points because it does not suit your view?

and there is fire, thunder, and water buffs.



this is more reason they are not spikes.

Light Elementals Are Completely Unique. They also cast Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel, a long with Haste, Protect and shell. They are Unique elementals and do not follow the basic core concepts of the 6 Elementals. Being Wind, Water, thunder, Earth, Fire, Ice

Everyone but you can apparently see that Blink/Stoneskin/Aquaviel and Blaze/Shock/Ice Spikes follow an Elemental "buff" line (Used by Elementals themselves) that consist of "3 Offensive" and "3 Deffensive" elemental buffs. Unique to Each Particular Element.

Light/Dark Elementals are completely unique in themselves.

[Rambus]

Light Elementals Are Completely Unique. They also cast Blink, Stoneskin, and Aquaviel, a long with Haste, Protect and shell. They are Unique elementals and do not follow the basic core concepts of the 6 Elementals. Being Wind, Water, thunder, Earth, Fire, Ice

Everyone but you can apparently see that Blink/Stoneskin/Aquaviel and Blaze/Shock/Ice Spikes follow an Elemental "buff" line (Used by Elementals themselves) that consist of "3 Offensive" and "3 Deffensive" elemental buffs. Unique to Each Particular Element.

Light/Dark Elementals are completely unique in themselves. .

abyssea elements are fusion types, seem to relfect on level 2 scs, i was not talking about abyssea.

"i want to agure the 6 elements and forget light and dark because it suits my view"
you do not grasp what a spike concepts is, see the guy i quoted from page 1.

ok

unfounded