Mud Spikes, Wind Spikes, and Aqua Spikes

[Zyeriis]

Radiant Breath (Light) vs. Silence (Wind)

Repose (Light) vs. Sleep (Dark)

Radiant Breath (Light) vs. Slow (Earth) vs. Cicimine Discharge (though I do not know what element this is (nor does wiki))

Magnetite Cloud (Earth) vs. Gravity (Wind) vs. Somnolence (Diabolos: Dark)

Ecliptic Growl (Fenrir: Dark) vs. Glittering Ruby (Carbuncle: Light)

Warm-Up (Earth) vs. Feather Barrier (Wind)

Amplification (Water) vs. Dream Shroud (Diabolos: Dark) vs. Memento Mori (Ice) vs. Plenilune Embrace (Light)

Noctoshield (Diabolos: Dark) vs. Phalanx (Light)

To name a few. Yes, a good amount of them are Blue Magic but not all of them.

[Saefinn]

I think it boils down to the simple point: Noodles was basically trying to say we've got buffs for each element, it's quite possible that's the way it was intended, that's reasonable, surely? Everybody's entitled to their own opinion. I was reading it and saw absolutely no reason for people to get on their high horse.

But of course, I can see a reason for this demand - damage spikes for all the way round on the elemental wheel, it's useful for causing other status effects and also useful for catching an enemy's weakness - like we have with helices, weather spells, bar-spells, en-spells and so on.

Maybe meet it half way and say, "have Aquaveil cause poison".

[Rambus]

Radiant Breath (Light) vs. Silence (Wind)

Repose (Light) vs. Sleep (Dark)

Radiant Breath (Light) vs. Slow (Earth) vs. Cicimine Discharge (though I do not know what element this is (nor does wiki))

Magnetite Cloud (Earth) vs. Gravity (Wind) vs. Somnolence (Diabolos: Dark)

Ecliptic Growl (Fenrir: Dark) vs. Glittering Ruby (Carbuncle: Light)

Warm-Up (Earth) vs. Feather Barrier (Wind)

Amplification (Water) vs. Dream Shroud (Diabolos: Dark) vs. Memento Mori (Ice) vs. Plenilune Embrace (Light)

Noctoshield (Diabolos: Dark) vs. Phalanx (Light)

To name a few. Yes, a good amount of them are Blue Magic but not all of them.

repose is a light sleep.
thinking about immunies now, flash is light, not dark, you can't blind a skele witch is immune to dark, but can be flashed blind effect

I explained the hybrids like radiant breath, light is for the damae check, the slow is earth, the silance is still wind.

same with diabolos, the damage is dark but gravity effect is wind.


here is a fun one jetterua is dark but the check to get terror is earth/pertified check.

regardless all of this does not show me wrong in anyway

It's not that i'm a fan but I just felt that specific person was attacked just for having an opinion.
So I resorted to being childish because i'm MLG FFXI.

it is not an opinion, it is wrong information.

do you understand there are other buffs that have elements???? (minne, barthunder are earth, they mingate damage, like stoneskin. then you have shell, protect, phalanx is light) she outirhgt dismissed phalanx because it does not support her view. so now she can be "right" and not admit wrong. couse there is other exmaples but that should be enough to show the unfounded view.

then you have:

or more then one stoneskin/ blink effects while only having one blaze spikes?

you can only have one spike spell on but you can have aquaviel and stoneskin and a spike spell on.

reprisal is a spike spell, you cannot have icespikes and it on.

it is unfounded view.

[Randwolf]

Water Spikes is called Aquaviel
Earth Spikes is called Stoneskin
Wind Spikes is called Blink

The problem with Noodles post is that it reads as "You are asking for something we already have." However, I think as has been pointed out, the term "Spikes," as the OP used it, would have a detrimental effect on the mob trying to attack the person buffed with the Spikes. Thus, if you take the term "Spikes" to imply it can have a detrimental effect on the attacker, the three examples listed by Noodles do not meet that criteria. They would simply be buffs with benefit to the person having them but of no detriment to the mob attacking that person. So, the term "Spikes" seems to be what all the disagreement is over.

The whole matter of whether there is a want/need for new buffs which respond to an attack but are passive otherwise is another discussion.

[Zyeriis]

repose is a light sleep.
thinking about immunies now, flash is light, not dark, you can't blind a skele witch is immune to dark, but can be flashed blind effect

I explained the hybrids like radiant breath, light is for the damae check, the slow is earth, the silance is still wind.

same with diabolos, the damage is dark but gravity effect is wind.


here is a fun one jetterua is dark but the check to get terror is earth/pertified check.

regardless all of this does not show me wrong in anyway

You're losing me Rambus. As hard as it is some times to follow what you're saying with the manner in which you write, you are losing me when you say "repose is light sleep". Isn't that...the point? The same can be applied to "I can't land silence on this enemy because it's wind based and immune to wind" > "I can't land blind on this enemy because it's dark based (skeleton) and immune to dark"

You also skipped Noctoshield (Phalanxga) vs. Phalanx, and the MDB 4 way I listed, not to mention Ecliptic Growl vs. Gliterring Ruby.

[Rambus]

You're losing me Rambus. As hard as it is some times to follow what you're saying with the manner in which you write, you are losing me when you say "repose is light sleep". Isn't that...the point? The same can be applied to "I can't land silence on this enemy because it's wind based and immune to wind" > "I can't land blind on this enemy because it's dark based (skeleton) and immune to dark"

You also skipped Noctoshield (Phalanxga) vs. Phalanx, and the MDB 4 way I listed, not to mention Ecliptic Growl vs. Gliterring Ruby.

i guess you can "get me" with noctoshield, I cannot explain that.

noctoshield phalanx confilits with the real phalanx and w/e is stronger is what stays.
spike spells is w/e used last ( god i hated SMNs doing shiva crap when i was casting reprisal back in the day)

I do not know what MDB 4 is

light and dark have all stat gains, point to staffs and voidstorm, and rings.

though light can be seen as chr + bonuses and affinity to that as well.

I have no idea what light sleep and dark sleep types have to do with buffs though, or the underplaying Argument about how stoneskin, aquaviel and blink do not coincide with spike buffs.

avatars also have wind heal and water heal. I do not know about wind but water has often been affiliate with heals in other games. Maybe summons are an exception? I don’t know.

[Zyeriis]

MDB - Magic Defense Bonus
Note: I meant MAB not MDB, So Magic Attack Bonus not Magic Defense bonus, it just happened that 2 of the ones I mentioned also boost MDB.

4 way - Amplification (Water) vs. Dream Shroud (Diabolos: Dark) vs. Memento Mori (Ice) vs. Plenilune Embrace (Light)

Everything I had in that list caused the same status effects, debuffs or buffs.

You cannot have Repose and Sleep both on the enemy at the same time. They both cause the same status effect: Sleep, which is unaffected by what type of element the spell that casts it is. Which is the point: Just because there's a spell that causes a status effect, and that spell is a specific element does not mean the status effect itself is that element. That way, you're blue magic argument holds less sway. I won't say you have a point with the hybrid blue magic spells but not every blue magic spell I listed is a hybrid spell.

[Rambus]

MDB - Magic Defense Bonus
Note: I meant MAB not MDB, So Magic Attack Bonus not Magic Defense bonus, it just happened that 2 of the ones I mentioned also boost MDB.

4 way - Amplification (Water) vs. Dream Shroud (Diabolos: Dark) vs. Memento Mori (Ice) vs. Plenilune Embrace (Light)

Everything I had in that list caused the same status effects, debuffs or buffs.

You cannot have Repose and Sleep both on the enemy at the same time. They both cause the same status effect: Sleep, which is unaffected by what type of element the spell that casts it is. Which is the point: Just because there's a spell that causes a status effect, and that spell is a specific element does not mean the status effect itself is that element. That way, you're blue magic argument holds less sway. I won't say you have a point with the hybrid blue magic spells but not every blue magic spell I listed is a hybrid spell.

sleep is effected by element,

you cannot sleep (dark) skeles, those eye pets in sandy but can be light slept ( lullaby)

there is sleep I and sleep II effects and if the mob is indifferent to both elements you can resleep the mob with a sleep II effect.

all blu spells as far as im aware are conidered sleep I effect therefore repose/ sleep II will resleep the mob.

there are some hybird stuff i guess but you where not proposing hybrid effects. useally the domant effect repenects the spell like Plenilune Embrace is a cure more so then attack/mab support. sure if you are doing a hybird you have a bit more room to play with to keep with current game logic but it should be traced somehow.

[Zyeriis]

I really don't know to explain it any clearer then: It's the spell itself that gets resisted/immune to due to it's element properties (Sleep the spell gets resisted by skeletons because it's dark in nature) not the status effect. There's non-magic ways to sleep thing such as Shockwave (Great Sword WS) and Pinecone Bomb (Physical Blue Magic) that can sleep these enemies, such as skeletons, because they don't have a particular element because they are not elemental moves. The same logic applies to the fact that spell versions are resisted because the spell itself is based in an element where as the resulting status effect is not. Yes, there are monsters that are completely immune to status effects such as sleep but that is not elemental immunity which is spell based, not status effect based.

[Rambus]

I really don't know to explain it any clearer then: It's the spell itself that gets resisted/immune to due to it's element properties (Sleep the spell gets resisted by skeletons because it's dark in nature) not the status effect. There's non-magic ways to sleep thing such as Shockwave (Great Sword WS) and Pinecone Bomb (Physical Blue Magic) that can sleep these enemies, such as skeletons, because they don't have a particular element because they are not elemental moves. The same logic applies to the fact that spell versions are resisted because the spell itself is based in an element where as the resulting status effect is not. Yes, there are monsters that are completely immune to status effects such as sleep but that is not elemental immunity which is spell based, not status effect based.

those are dark type sleeps actally lol, those sparked my interest in finding other elemental properties to such things. well i think shockwave is dark, i did test pinecone bomb though, def dark, and sleep I effect.

tested both just now, both are dark.