Future of FFXI and your approvals/disapprovals to the development team

[Anewie]

I find it normal that casual players can't get the best gear. At least, they could have almost the best gear as generally, "elite" endgame content provided only marginal gains. You can for instance compare the mini-extension final rewards to salvage gear or salvage gear to Nyzul gear, or even sky.




Nope, they where considered worthless in december with full AF3+2.




This is the typical opinion of "pro abyssea" players that IMO are just recent players that spend time leveling right before abyssea without getting involved in endgame and then when abyssea cam out, they dicovered it.

First, not many old endgamers will do exp parties in abyssea because there is no real point in leveling extra jobs. The game is so unbalance that you require at most 2 DD jobs, 2 mages jobs. More precisely, ninja monk whm are basically the best jobs. Why would you level drg/pup/dnc/ w/e really since those jobs are so much better. Guess what ? Abyssea did not change that, except for nin, because at least mnk and whm were already most wanted jobs for endgame before abyssea. MNK could take anything meleable without TP spamming (unlike SAM/WAR WAR/SAM DD/SAM) while being easily on par and even better in some cases than 2 handed DDs. WHM has always been the best healer in the game and ranked top job in the census since forever.



"it doesn't require a lot of effort to be abosulutely the best"

I'm sorry you are completely wrong. Do you have the best gear ? Honest question. The best gear right now is full AF3+2 with level 90 empyreal weapon, epona's ring plus various marginal upgrades. I'm sorry to tell you it's pretty hardcore. Getting a level 90 weapon requires you to kill ~ 100 Boss types Nms, all of them requiring lesser NM's KI to be poped, and all of them requiring a team to defeat. Getting a full AF3+2 set is not possible solo, it also requires a team and if you want to proc green, it requires specific jobs so a decent size party.

So it does require a lot of effort to achieve this. About as much as a full salvage set I would say, the difference being mainly that you can enter anytime. But as far as dedicated game hours it's the same.

Look, in my old group it took us ~6 months to get a full set like usukane in salvage, running 4x aweek. That is 1 hours of assault, 1 hours of waiting time for gathering and 7 hours per week of salvage : 9H/ week for 26 week is 208 hours.
I have the level 85 vere and this what It cost me : 6 pops were gathered in two game sessions of 6 hours (and not : 6 hours of abyssea I insist cos I know some idiot will jumb at my throat), so 12 hours. 1/3 of the chloris put only 1 bud so that's 10 buds for 10 hours, or 50 chloris buds for 50 hours. Magianing the base mantis took forever camping the NMs, that's about 50 hours. Ulhuadshi is about 4 hours for 6 pops and with the 1/3 of 1 drop rule, that's 10 drops in 4 hours so 20 hours for 50 drops. From personnal exprerience, gathering a pop from dragua takes 15 minutes including running around etc plus 15 minutes kill so 30 minutes per kill, and with the 1/3 rule you need 45 kills to achieve 75 scales, or another 23 hours.

In total a level 90 empyreal weapon cost you (at least) 93 hours of work

I didn't farm AF3 yet but there are a lot of NMs to kill, a lot of seals. I'd say 5 hours per peice or 25 hours total eyeballing.

time for the absolute best, as you said : 118 hours

Seeing as the 208 hours of salvage grants you one set for yourself as well as plenty of pieces for others, while the 118 hours of abyssea gives only an empyreal for yourself, I'd say it's extremely hardcore.


"Almost all content can be done with 3-4 people"

I tend to read a lot of people thinking this was not not the case before abyssea. I think you guyz wasted to much time doing dynamis thinking you were doing something useful. Limbus/salvage/Nyzul/assault/sea/sky/hnm/znm could all be done with 3-4 people. Nothing changed. Nothing. Ever since I stopped dynamis in 2006 I did most of my endgame in groups of smaller length than 6-8. A lot was done duo. Everything I can think of range from duoing all salvage NMs, bosses, wierd BCNMS like X's knife, most interesting KSNMs, trioing Nyzul at 75, duoing limbus zones, duoing tier IV pop sets for znms then 6-manning them. The only exception would be Einherjar but this has to be the most casual event in a sense as it required you to run at a fixed time 2x30 minutes a week as opposed to the kind of hardcore event which is dynamis for 2x 3H30 per week.









By many you probably think you and your team.



No way. facepalm. How many of the posters of this forum have full AF3+2 + level 90 empyreal weapon. Not many of the noobs from BG have this. If something takes a week how come there are not many level 90 weapons yet, considering we are 5 months after the relese of heroes ?





I want 6-man events like nyzul/assault/salvage. Preferably that don't require a static to be efficient. No more abyssea. I'm tiried of the grind and to have to camp my 15' respawn NM against 2-3 others systematically.


What I don't like in abyssea :

* having to counter camp others or being yourself countercamped. Make everything popable already, it's artificially increasing your pain. There are still cc problem for pops NMs, especially at peek times, but it's not as much of a problem.

* too much running around, too much jeuno lag.

* the general grind that go with it. At least for salvage/nyzul you had the time attack aspect which was quite exciting.

For the next event I would like this time attack aspect but preferably with no limited entry requirements like abyssea. My ideal would be 2 hours salvage style instance zones, not extendable that you could try over and over. You get the difficult aspect but not the cockblocking aspect.

I have 2 90 relics and 2 90 empyrean weapons, yes. I completed a lvl 90 ochain through shouts and it took 3 weeks ish. I have have 2 full sets of salvage gear and I would be happy to swiftly tell you, you couldn't be more wrong about comparing abys gear to salvage gear. I have a question now, why don't you post pics of your gear?

And most your post is pretty innaccurate. BlueGartr is THE most respected player forum and if you went on there and said something like this, Islander would eviserate your account. I want to believe you're trolling, but I think you're probably serious...

Also, december 2010 is... in fact, 2010...

>.< I don't even mean to be rude but jeez, what is with all the noobish posts? This is simply just not true...

[MarkovChain]

1) Bg used to be respected now it's a bunch of idiots and the forums are completely dead, proof is that the main activity concerns comments on the posts done on this site. At one point the site were full of arrogant pricks that at least knew wtf they were talking about but nowadays it's all about optimizing the number of NMs per brew and answering "what's better ?" question by invoking the wonderful spreadsheet done by kinematics from .. Allakhazam. Elitism 101 I guess.



2) You got 2 level 90 empyrean and 1 ochain , so what ? Abyssea stated in July 2010. Even if we only consider the release of heroes as a baseline, you managed 2 level 90 weapons in 5 months. You claimed to have 2 full set of salvage gear and I would like to know how much runs it took you because it's definitely not much longer than full AF3+2 + level 90 mythic. Like I said the difference is that you can be in abyssea all day, unlike salvage where you are limited to 100 minutes per day and 1-2 NM per 100 minutes. So If you compare the amount of RL time required to fully complete salvage, yes, it's longer. But If you compared the actual ingame time, no, not much. You only having 2 level 90 relics 5 months after their final release is proof of this. Even though you can work towards them whenever you want, any amount of time you want per day, not just once a day, it took you roughly the same time to get 2 empyreal as me to get full sets to people that transfered to our server. On quetz we had a richissime player transfer to us on october 2008 and he had 4 completed sets on July 2009. Considering the limitation on salvage entry, yes, level 90 weapons are easily comparable as far as amount of work goes.

Think you mad. I bet you also consider yourself casual.

[Trangnai]

My personal Opinion stems from the fact that the game is centered entirely around abyssea. This isn't necessarily bad for end game, besides brews, which i feel should still be 2mil curor.

My Major issues with Abyssea Stem from the ease of play, While I believe that the game should turn and allow for more causal and low man play, I don't think making it able to be soloed/duoed to get most of the good gear is what players should want.

Leeching levels is by far my biggest pet peeve with Abyssea. Thought I do enjoy the fact that outside exp is now double what it once was, it should have been that way from the beginning. I'm sure I am not the only person that doesn't enjoy being the only level 90 in a pt of 18 that can properly hit a mob.

Job Balance has always been an issue, but the biggest hit was Abyssea. The Introduction of Atmas, while adding another demension to the game and making your job class more customizable inside of abyssea. Also Limited rather then buffed jobs. Literally to the point where alot of jobs just saw themselfs knocked off the chart of jobs wanted. An issue i've always had is this game having far to many DD jobs, and not enough tanks/healers.

On an end note I just feel that this game has had some nice improvements, but as a consequence we lost alot of the old game even to the point of just simply exping all the way to most old EG content which i feel in some form should still be relevant and enjoyable for playing on the side or just getting old gear that you may want to use for a job you're leveling or something of the sort, but due to the content no longer being relevant to current end game or just simply exp. I know due to this i've personally lost alot of enjoyment out of the game. I could make a list on changes i would like to see. But I feel that this thread isn't where that belongs.

[Rambus]

Can someone explain the brew thing? because without it it would be very hard to do emp weapons because of the "what is in it for me" mind set. like the 75>80 stage there is no seals and what not so you are suck soloing them unless you have a group that wants to do them for each other. some can be soloed, some are hard like galvoid route vs butus > sobek.

then you have the 85>90 that are hard to fight and are usally brewed. I think wanting 75 drops from that is a bit much as well.

why shoud people be left out because of they can't find help or w/e?

[Anewie]

1) Bg used to be respected now it's a bunch of idiots and the forums are completely dead, proof is that the main activity concerns comments on the posts done on this site. At one point the site were full of arrogant pricks that at least knew wtf they were talking about but nowadays it's all about optimizing the number of NMs per brew and answering "what's better ?" question by invoking the wonderful spreadsheet done by kinematics from .. Allakhazam. Elitism 101 I guess.



2) You got 2 level 90 empyrean and 1 ochain , so what ? Abyssea stated in July 2010. Even if we only consider the release of heroes as a baseline, you managed 2 level 90 weapons in 5 months. You claimed to have 2 full set of salvage gear and I would like to know how much runs it took you because it's definitely not much longer than full AF3+2 + level 90 mythic. Like I said the difference is that you can be in abyssea all day, unlike salvage where you are limited to 100 minutes per day and 1-2 NM per 100 minutes. So If you compare the amount of RL time required to fully complete salvage, yes, it's longer. But If you compared the actual ingame time, no, not much. You only having 2 level 90 relics 5 months after their final release is proof of this. Even though you can work towards them whenever you want, any amount of time you want per day, not just once a day, it took you roughly the same time to get 2 empyreal as me to get full sets to people that transfered to our server. On quetz we had a richissime player transfer to us on october 2008 and he had 4 completed sets on July 2009. Considering the limitation on salvage entry, yes, level 90 weapons are easily comparable as far as amount of work goes.

Think you mad. I bet you also consider yourself casual.

Wow. Although you are correct on some point, you're totally missing the mark. You cannot compare salvage sets with af2+2 BECAUSE you can stay in abyssea all day. That automatically makes it casual. Abyssea is, will always be, and was meant to be casual. Salvage? Absolutley not.

Also, are you comparing.. getting af3+2 to getting a mythic? I'm sorry but you need to seriously think about what you are saying. YOU are comparing very casual and easy events to very elite non casual events/goals.

You're basically sayng if you could stay in salvage all day long, the casual could get 5/5 salvage just as fast and thats retard logic. Sorry, it just is. First of all, if they stay in any event "all day", they aren't casual. I am NOT casual, although I don't play all day. I'm in school and i'm married but because I put forth alot of effort into my goals and I actually try to be a good player and be very much prepared for what i'm doing, I would not be considered casual by most people standards.

Also, what's casual to one group, might not be for another. I have helped with mythics before and as I've stated, I have 2 relics, nothing, absolutley nothing compares to those goals. They are anything but casual/easy. Abyssea is a simple, casual event. Sure, if you wan't af2+3 5/5 you're gonna need to know what you need to do but lets not get carried away with comparing it to the old school endgame. Huge difference and I have put forth the effort towards both. It took me 2 straight years of salvage to get 2 full sets. You couldn't suck either. You HAD to be good, smart and a quick thinker. You had a time limit and you needed to know what to do at the exact moment.


Abyssea? Please. I'm not even going to get into comparing it. As many people have said before, you can afk/not pay attention and people who dont want to do anymore than that? Brew sup. And that is the truth.

I'M not casual sir, Abyssea/Empyreans/AF3 IS. kthxbai

[MarkovChain]

You're basically sayng if you could stay in salvage all day long, the casual could get 5/5 salvage just as fast and thats retard logic.

Obviously, NM having 5% drop rate, and killing one NM requiring 30 min at worst, if you could enter the zones several time a day, you would be able get the drops after 20 kill, so yeah getting a full set would probably be a matter of one or two weeks.

It took me 2 straight years of salvage to get 2 full sets. You couldn't suck either. You HAD to be good

I hope it was 2 years of running once a week because otherwise you deserve a big facepalm. One 35 required ~20 runs on average so 80 runs for a full set since a zone drops 2 of the same. You will get boss drops in the process if you are good. Otherwise I can only laugh at you for claiming to be good by having 2 set after 2 years. Salvage was casual in the sense that you could /shout and get strangers to kill NMs with you. It was hardcore in the sense of effort for a fullset but for individual pieces it was cake. Anyone and their sisters had morrigan's robes and usukane sune-ates.

[Rambus]

I seen 273 deaths of a NM before it droped the 35, it is likey moking the piss poor drop rates then anything.

1 year for 1 35, not worth it. then you add the gil cost on top of it, more not worth it.

I did it nonstop for a year then quit. never seen people get so bent out of shape over drop rates ( in otherwords lead to drama who gets what, not enough to go around).

then you have other people that got missed from savage duping XD

[MarkovChain]

I don't think you ever entered salvage bro, I've done it 4 years 4 times a week ouside of holidays and it's about 5%.

[Rezeak]

That was alot of text to say I'd like harder more challenging content

[Anewie]

Obviously, NM having 5% drop rate, and killing one NM requiring 30 min at worst, if you could enter the zones several time a day, you would be able get the drops after 20 kill, so yeah getting a full set would probably be a matter of one or two weeks.



I hope it was 2 years of running once a week because otherwise you deserve a big facepalm. One 35 required ~20 runs on average so 80 runs for a full set since a zone drops 2 of the same. You will get boss drops in the process if you are good. Otherwise I can only laugh at you for claiming to be good by having 2 set after 2 years. Salvage was casual in the sense that you could /shout and get strangers to kill NMs with you. It was hardcore in the sense of effort for a fullset but for individual pieces it was cake. Anyone and their sisters had morrigan's robes and usukane sune-ates.

Right because that's all salvage required. I'm calling bs on you. Salvage was not just some mindless, "oh hay lets go kill etc" and i'm sorry but I wasn't a gear whore and in my 6 man group, we had other people to tend too. Most people would think a full set per 6months was pretty good back then. We were after all, one of the better known groups.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree but i am a salvage vet and I was part of a very good group. Did I have bad luck with 35s? Yes I did but who didn't? LMAO at everone having morrigan slopes. You are either dillusional or something! Also, If you honestly believe a person could just say. oh hay! I feel like doing salvage! I wanna get enlil's doublet ! I'm gonna shout for 6 people so we can go!

No. Just not. That is ABYSSEA! iN SALVAGE, to even consider shouting, first, you needed a good guide, a skilled person who knew wtf. And you can believe guiding a random group through salvage/cell calling required much more effort than calling procs. If you don't think that, well you just simply, don't know

I lead abyssea and salvage and I am telling you, if you think you woulda been able to obtain 5/5 salvage set in a week, if u could stay in salvage as long as you wanted, with a random shout group of 4-6 people, I would say you have a lot to learn. That is not at all the case and there was much more to salvage than there is to abyssea. Fact.