One thing that really pisses me off about the FFXI community

[Tamoa]

The things he's said in other topics is irrelevant, as that particular post I referenced was a perfectly valid suggestion and pointed out a genuine problem with the UI.

I don't think you read my post properly. People were already quite sick of the OP spamming the forum with threads like "I don't like having to get certain dynamis wins before I get access too Xarc (i.e. I want my thf hands NOW and I don't want to work for them), fix it!" Not saying that particular suggestion was horrible, but he was already being suspected of being a troll by many of us.

[Eeek]

See, that's a big misconception that seems to be perpetuated among FFXI players. If new players have trouble just figuring out how to do simple things walk, that is not their fault, it is the game's fault for not making walking intuitive enough or not presenting the instructions in the proper format (hint: the proper format is usually in-game tool-tips, which are completely missing from FFXI).

Yes, it is the fault of new players if they cannot figure out how to walk. A FFXI Game Manual does exist, FFXI is extensively documented online on many different websites, and SE even created cute little introductory videos for new players.

[Rhianu]

Yes, it is the fault of new players if they cannot figure out how to walk. A FFXI Game Manual does exist, FFXI is extensively documented online on many different websites, and SE even created cute little introductory videos for new players.

I already covered that:

Any game that requires the player to read the manual is poorly designed. A good, well designed interface should be so intuitive that no instruction is necessary, or if that's not possible then all the pertinent instructions should be presented within the game itself. Any interface that requires users to turn to an outside source for instruction, whether that instruction be in a manual or on a website, is counter-intuitive.

[Greatguardian]

The things he's said in other topics is irrelevant, as that particular post I referenced was a perfectly valid suggestion and pointed out a genuine problem with the UI.

Welcome to the internet.

If you make a big enough jackass out of yourself for long enough, it won't matter if you're posting the secret to solo AV. People will not take you seriously. It's a little thing called accountability. That OP has shot all his credibility to hell, so he's not going to get anywhere no matter what kind of thread he makes; whether you consider it a legitimate discussion or not.

That said, I don't care about the UI. There are unofficial improvements that are easy to obtain and are strictly regulated in order to prevent the disruption of game balance. Does being able to swap more than 6 pieces of gear at a time give you an advantage over console players? Yes. But you're not going to be able to claim-bot/craft-bot/fish-bot with Windower unless you hack it, which you could say about just about anything.

Is it reasonable to expect players to use non-sanctioned third party Apps to improve their UI? Honestly, at this point, I think it's perfectly reasonable. The game is 10 years old. You can run FFXI on a netbook, let alone any desktop or laptop built within the past 6 years. Would some default UI improvements be nice? Sure. But they probably won't be compatible with Windower plugins if they are implemented, and people would still use Windower anyways. Nothing the Dev team can implement will come close to mimicking Scripting and Spellcast (PS2, RAM, etc).

If you want to run FFXI on a 360/PS2/PS3, that's fine. No one's stopping you. You just have a less awesome UI. It's a conscious decision you make to opt for the less awesome UI when you play on a console. It's been this way for years. Implementing Windower plugins into Vanilla FFXI is never going to gain enough steam to happen because any PC player who gives a crap already uses Windower.

[Tamoa]

So are you saying FFXI is too hard because it requires you to read instructions in a booklet? Reading is hard? Personally, I can't think of anything more annoying about a new game than having tips popping up every 5 steps I take when I start playing.

[Rhianu]

I didn't say it was hard, I said it was counter-intuitive. Do not confuse difficulty with obfuscation.

[CrystalWeapon]

It's not just UI threads that get the cookie cutter arguements. Most suggestions get one or more of the following.

"Ps2 limitations"
"If you want (insert suggestion here) then go play WoW"
"(insert suggestion here) isn't useful enough to spend time on. I don't want them putting off big things for useless crap"
"It's been this way since day 1 it's not going to change"
etc...

I have to agree with GG on this if you post nothing but stupidity for long enough, the first responses you'll get back on any thread will be negative. If you have a concern you should at least take the time to put your idea together in a clear and concise manner. Starting a thread with "OMG SE how can you do this???" or "This needs to be changed now!" is never the right way to go about a suggestion. You only hurt your own cause.

[Greatguardian]

I didn't say it was hard, I said it was counter-intuitive. Do not confuse difficulty with obfuscation.

Oh god. Reading the Instruction Manual to find Instructions is counter-bloody-intuitive.

Bravo.

[Rhianu]

Oh god. Reading the Instruction Manual to find Instructions is counter-bloody-intuitive.

Bravo.

Hey, it's true. Try reading a book on human-computer-interactions (H.C.I.).

[Karbuncle]

Admitedly I only skimmed the wiki page on HCI

But are you comparing college and beyond level Reading to a Game Manual?