So i leeched my job to 90 in abyssea

[Rambus]

So kick them? Or if you're not the pt leader drop and find another pt? This concept seems so hard for some people.

Was trying to, if my friend did not have so little time and if I didnt have to go sleep i would of job change for him. ( takes too long to job change)

If there was faster ways of job change I WOULD OF changed to blu to help him. (talking about helping my ls friend that was short on time)

there was no one around -.-

and we did not even have 18/18 at the time was more like 16 or 17

I do not care about BG thread or bottom of the ballel people as you put it ( I dislike the site because they banned me for telling people I did not merit stone)

I care about the frequency of running into them, and that number was increasing since ATU came out. ( I can into more in ATU era vs AB era but i herd some bad stories of how people played after being in AB.

Some of my stories of seeing people gear where not all directly effected me ( like that WHM) just something I saw walking around to kill NM in abyssea ( they had a different NM when i saw it).

That melee when I talked about I did get kicked, if he would melee and use temps to consistently keep mp up and try work something that would allow him to melee and do his job. I would not of kicked him.

I kicked him and send him tell, now will you listen? can you do a beter job to keep mp up if you are going to melee? outside pt are curing more then you.

He then went on talking about how his whm can outdd me and that he did not need the pt just wanted to skill up so I said I don’t need you and I got a rep already. (this is not the 5/5 NQ emp gear Na say macro whm, that was the guy I saw fighting some NM in abyssea with a group)

other people let people sit and afk leech because they are friend or something w/e. point is people accept gimp now because it is so easy to get exp it is like oh we have 1-5 gimps it dont matter we can still get exp anyway

abyssea pt is useally

5 people that do thier job

1 person in OMG gear ( emp user or emp ws weapon)

6 gimps

1 key leech

5 afk people

It is not like i can find a new party when this is the accepted norm so I do what i can to weed out the worst of the worst.

[Tenshibaby]

The point at which the guy brought up Bards being gimp for fulltiming Marches really pretty much solidified for me that he's basically your stereotypical Pre-Abyssea Maat's Cap. Tons of jobs, doesn't know a damn thing about game mechanics or gear.

So you say March x2 is the only song melees need and you say that I am the one who deosn't know a damn thing.... Spoken like a true Abyssea-leeched RDM.

Leveling the old way does not atomically a better player so quit sounding like your views are based on that. Leeching a job does not atomically mean you will always suck at it.

Atomic leveling ftw!

What many of you don't get is that you think there are 2 groups of players: those that leveled their jobs and took months and learned every step and knows the weaknesses and strengths, and therefore are clueless noobs because they were 75 when you were running around trying to find your way out of Windurst, and those who key-whored and spammed 1-2 spells in Abyssea, and are therefore more likely to be awesome.

Some veterans suck, and some leechers are good, but if you think that veterans are more likely to suck than leechers (when it is obvious many of you depend heavily on this) you are just hopeless.

[Greatguardian]

So I don't know how Haste works because 1 of my 7 jobs was Abyssea leeched? LolOk. There are extremely rare situations where mixing a song with March would beat out double March, but it's so incredibly unlikely to come across something like this, especially at this stage in the game's life, that it's borderline ridiculous.

Going from 40% Haste (Gear + Haste spell) to 63% Haste (adds marches) is a 62% increase in attack speed, which increases both TP phase damage and WS frequency. What the hell other songs come even remotely close to a 60% increase in damage under normal circumstances?

[Rambus]

Maybe it is different now; I am not sure and if someone is going to counter the statement I am going to make it better be done so with math/ parse.

march/march is only done if you need a tank to puch down recasts or something. you useally have a second support if you are doing march/march. ( I/E second bard to do attack songs or cor)

PLD and solo brd it is march/ ballad. (though this hardly exists anymore, still stating it though)

If there is only one bard ( no cor) you do march/ attack.

A range attack base damage would be attack/attack.

soooo...
To me the "norm" is having one bard do march/ attack. I think that is why he attacked you.

[Tenshibaby]

I attacked him because he and many other people think all jobs can be boiled down to a simple cycle and formula with no ideas of their own, no flexibility for different circumstances, no true awareness of the game to know when the circumstances ARE different, and no knowledge of their jobs to adapt or innovate.

If people think all their job consists of is doing 1 of 2-3 options, it's no wonder they get to 90 and think they're as good as the big boys.

[Greatguardian]

Maybe it is different now, I am not sure and if someone is going to couter the statment I am going to make it better be done so with math/ prase.

march/march is only done if you need a tank to puch down recasts or something. you useally have a second support if you are doing march/march. ( I/E second bard to do attack songs or cor)

PLD and solo brd it is march/ ballad. (though this hardly exists anymore, still stating it though)

If there is only one bard ( no cor) you do march/ attack.

A range attack base damage would be attack/attack.

soooo...
To me the "norm" is having one bard do march/ attack. I think that is why he attacked you.

You're asking me to reply with math when you're the one replying to my math without any.

Going from Gear+Haste to Gear+Haste+Marchx2 is a 62% increase in attack speed, which increases TP damage and WS damage (via WS frequency). I can't say it's exactly a 62% increase in total damage because that leaves out JA delay, but it would not be far off to say that, for the purposes of discussion, it is roughly a 60% increase in total damage dealt.

The absolute maximum you can get from any single minuet is +81 attack. On a DD/War with 700 Attack w/o Berserk, your average non-song'd Attack is going to be 805. Going from 805 average attack to 886 average attack is a 10% increase in attack plus a 27% increase in attack speed when you're using March 2 + Minuet 5. This doesn't come close to the 62% increase in attack speed you're getting by using double marches, and fails to take into account the decreasing returns and eventual cap on Attack (Putting it in your favor and still losing).

The more attack you have, the less each point of it is doing for you. The more Haste you have, the more each point of it is doing for you. Unless the DDs in question are complete and utter suck, not eating food, sitting with Attack Down debuffs fulltime; March+March will beat March+Minuet.

[Greatguardian]

I attacked him because he and many other people think all jobs can be boiled down to a simple cycle and formula with no ideas of their own, no flexibility for different circumstances, no true awareness of the game to know when the circumstances ARE different, and no knowledge of their jobs to adapt or innovate.

If people think all their job consists of is doing 1 of 2-3 options, it's no wonder they get to 90 and think they're as good as the big boys.

Get over it. I know damn well how situational things are. Trying to create hopelessly unrealistic situations just to prove a point is doing nothing to help your cause. Marchx2 is going to be the best song combination in 99% of situations. Ragging on Bards who use it is just shortsighted.

[Rambus]

You're asking me to reply with math when you're the one replying to my math without any.

Going from Gear+Haste to Gear+Haste+Marchx2 is a 62% increase in attack speed, which increases TP damage and WS damage (via WS frequency). I can't say it's exactly a 62% increase in total damage because that leaves out JA delay, but it would not be far off to say that, for the purposes of discussion, it is roughly a 60% increase in total damage dealt.

The absolute maximum you can get from any single minuet is +81 attack. On a DD/War with 700 Attack w/o Berserk, your average non-song'd Attack is going to be 805. Going from 805 average attack to 886 average attack is a 10% increase in attack plus a 27% increase in attack speed when you're using March 2 + Minuet 5. This doesn't come close to the 62% increase in attack speed you're getting by using double marches, and fails to take into account the decreasing returns and eventual cap on Attack (Putting it in your favor and still losing).

The more attack you have, the less each point of it is doing for you. The more Haste you have, the more each point of it is doing for you. Unless the DDs in question are complete and utter suck, not eating food, sitting with Attack Down debuffs fulltime; March+March will beat March+Minuet.

700 attack? no buffs? abyssea?

you forgot to include all jobs and if they are puching delay cap with march and haste.

[Greatguardian]

700 attack? no buffs? abyssea?

you forgot to include all jobs and if they are puching delay cap with march and haste.

I have 700 attack without Buffs outside Abyssea on Mnk =/ What's your point? Is food somehow not standard any more? And the only job that can hit the delay cap without Haste Samba is Nin afaik, and any good Nin would be tweaking their gear to avoid Delay overflow under those buffs anyways.

Plus if you're going to move the discussion to outside Abyssea, you're going to be capping Attack on things a hell of a lot easier =/. How many NMs are there greater than level 90 now to even start accounting for Level Correction outside Abyssea? No more than a dozen, I'm sure.

[Rambus]

I have 700 attack without Buffs outside Abyssea on Mnk =/ What's your point? Is food somehow not standard any more? And the only job that can hit the delay cap without Haste Samba is Nin afaik, and any good Nin would be tweaking their gear to avoid Delay overflow under those buffs anyways.

Plus if you're going to move the discussion to outside Abyssea, you're going to be capping Attack on things a hell of a lot easier =/. How many NMs are there greater than level 90 now to even start accounting for Level Correction outside Abyssea? No more than a dozen, I'm sure.

I will admit I am just here checking out on situations, i have no idea on 90 math esp inside abyssea. I do not really look at my screan. So i cannot say yeah my war has this attack for ws, mnk has that, job z had xxx str xxx attack.

I can say this though namas arrow needs huge amounts of attack. i ussed STR/ R attack atma, VV, R attack/ R acc atma

food still gave me more damage
berserk on top of that still gave me more damage
warcry on top of that gave me more damage

so where is this cap?????

when i was on war getting attack song I would pop a lot more 4k raging rush vs without ( useally only pop that with warcry)

and double haste assumes you are always on mobs, witch is more untrue then is