Abyssea: Useful jobs and Useless jobs. Your opinions on why.

[MarkovChain]

You need 50% haste to double damage output over 0% Haste =/.

100% Haste brings your damage output to infinity.
.

So much wrong is this sentence. Apparently BG never heard of Job ability delay. First hard cap is 80%, and is likely obtained way before that due to total delay capping at 80%. When you get near this cap, JA delay on WS at least (2 full seconds) reaches the point where it is as "penalizing" as a full melee round (for monk for instance) which means that the formula going around on noob forums like BG is no longer true.

As an example on monk with ~6 rounds per ws on average going from 60% (= 130 delay) to 65% haste sees his damage increased by

without boosting WS : (6*326*(1-0.60)+120)/(6*326*(1-0.65)+120)= +12.15%
with boosting : +11.31%

while the nub formula you are using gives

(1-0.6)/(1-0.65)=+14.3%

This is what happens for the low amount of 5% haste.

If you have 50% total haste, this actually boosts your total damage compare to no haste by only 84% which is far from doubling damage output.

The lower the average round per ws (obtained through /war, high DA rate or Atmas of the easy modes like apocalypse) will put the number of rounds close to 5 at which point haste is even worse. As an example with ~5 rounds per ws on average 5% haste only does +10% if you start form 60% haste.

[Greatguardian]

Huh. Pchan posted. Somehow I don't feel it's worth taking him off my ignore list to see what he wrote.

[Hoshi]

I never said this was EXP only. Lets shift gears to NMs then. I did mention them before, after all. Many times, in fact.

Against NMs, DDs are usually doing 2 things:

1) Watching
2) Procing

Unless that DD happens to be a tank, of course. In THAT case, haste is fine. More haste = more damage = better hate kept. That, I understand. However, killing the mob as quickly as possible isn't a good idea when aiming for procs and normally killing goes slowly until the proc is landed, so haste isn't as big of an issue.

Now, lets move on to situations after proc lands. The DDs could go in and zerg depending on the NM, but often times it is unwise. If they CAN zerg, the NM will probably die quickly regardless of Haste, but if you have a Bard or Corsair handy, fine. Nice. Get those buffs. Thing is, they aren't needed and more often than not, aren't even wanted since having another BLM or WHM is better overall. After all, NMs getting beat on by 10 DDs with high haste tends to allow the NM room to spam it's powerful skills and wipe the team before the healers know what happened.

If the NM can't be zerged effectively (most NMs in abyssea), then double march would really only benefit the tank to keep hate, but would certainly feed the NM some fast TP as well by the tank alone.

This is all relative to the tank and his ability to survive using as few resources as possible. Why do you think a MNK and 2 WHMs are enough for almost anything in Abyssea? NM doesn't spam WS, MNK can survive because WHMs have plenty of breathing room between heals and the NM's next major attack, and then everyone is happy.

Long story short, weak exp mobs die too fast for too much haste to matter. Abyssea NMs are too dangerous to zerg due to feeding too much TP to the NM. Therefore, haste given from equipment and job abilities, plus the additional haste from a WHM is all that is ever required. Therefore, BRDs aren't needed. I have never, ever looked at my team and said "damn. Wish we had a BRD right about now." Everything we need for any event in Abyssea is as simple as 4-6 jobs. White Mage, Black Mage, Blue Mage, Ninja, Warrior, Monk and someone with /BRD. No full BRD needed. Ever.

It seems to me unless you're doing quick draw solo or are a solo RDM or BLM that there will always be someone tanking NMs in abyssea. That tank could always benefit from COR and BRD buffs. Maybe you don't miss those buffs but I assure you they make things easier.

[Dallas]

Anyone who lists RDM, BRD or COR hasnt played the other end of the spectrum: low hate, low man, pet parties. All 3 of these are amazing in SMN/BST parties. If you haven't seen what we can kill, it's because we're done before you arrive.

RDM, BRD: debuff kings, RDM is a perfect low-hate backup tank when pets die. Refresh abilities replace Minikin. Allow for Razed Ruins.
COR: pet buffs, only job for it. I saw physical pacts climb to over 5600 (no +2 gear) on Sedna. These buffs are amazing (appears to be at least 30-40% increase in damage).

I'm sure PLD has a niche too, but I can help them here.

[Cream_Soda]

Pet parties are useful?

[MarkovChain]

Useful for smn beast pup I guess ?

[Fiarlia]

Pet parties are useful?

Probably not but in all fairness I imagine they can be quite a fun change of pace, I really enjoy playing as SMN, for example. (Note, I only do that if we've got enough people to cover what's needed and not enough to split up, and even then it's not usually SMN I take.)

Don't mistake me as saying that we should reevaluate which jobs are or are not useful, though. >.>

[Valaris]

drk isnt totaly useless it has almost all the red procs that war has except polearm/staff so if you cant find a war drk is a decent substitute.

[Cream_Soda]

Too bad wars are available to 95%+ of the game population, as its a very popular job.

it has almost all the red procs that war has except polearm

The staff ws' need war main or sub. If you sub war on drk, you lose dagger procs.

war/nin gets dagger and staff, drk has to choose between the two.

[Rambus]

Too bad wars are available to 95%+ of the game population, as its a very popular job.


The staff ws' need war main or sub. If you sub war on drk, you lose dagger procs.

war/nin gets dagger and staff, drk has to choose between the two.

and the fact drk/war is more useless then drk was originally