Abyssea: Useful jobs and Useless jobs. Your opinions on why.

[Andylynn]

That is all i really understand, People want the easiest route, it is human nature.

yes PLD is sitting on the sidelines and it needs to be with how the game works, not only does having a PLD mean longer kills it also means you might not even kill the mob.

PLD needs emp weapons or level something else if you want gear. that is just how things are.

No job should need an empyrean weapon to be considered 'good' or 'useful.' I.E. Fudo, Quietus/Torcleaver, CDC.

[Rambus]

No job should need an empyrean weapon to be considered 'good' or 'useful.' I.E. Fudo, Quietus/Torcleaver, CDC.

I agree but thats how things are ..>.> why are we going back and forth on if pld can be useful in abyssea? I wached a PD do a seal farm and they wiped, thats the only time i seen PLD do anything in abyssea.

you can't be saying yeah PLD can be fine or good or cap MDT. If you do that nothing is changed, you need to tell the truth how the game is so it gets changed

[Greatguardian]

No job should have to be given up just because of balancing issues. Someone should be able to play drk, sam, or pld etc and not have to worry about 'getting with the times.' Hate mechanics are not fine, as even though a pld can do decent damage, it's no where near enough to cap hate quickly at all. Theyre slow as snails at doing so unless pimped out. Their lousy evasion doesn't help especially when tanking pld nin, there goes even more of their cumululative emnity. Pld needs a way to quickly reach a higher cap, or no cap at all if it's going to do remotely anything near what it could do. Mechanics are broken, not the job.

There's a difference between being pimped out and being epic suck at PLD. Most people don't seem to realize this. I'll put it in a nice visual format, then:


Pimped < ----|---------------------------|------------------------------------------------|--- > Suck
___________A___________________B__________________________________C

A: A pimped out Ochain/Almace PLD
B: A PLD who can cap hate easily and DD comparable to Pup/Thf/Dnc/Bst inside Abyssea
C: 95% of PLDs

Pld/Nin shouldn't be losing more CE than they gain at any point in time. There are 20 jobs in this game. They cannot all be able to do the same things with the same proficiency. Some are better than others when you are looking at a specific field of use. PLD happens to be worse than other jobs at what most people do these days. Big whoop. Contrary to popular belief, it is no job's inherent right to be "The Best".

If you want to use the best job at any given time, you adapt. If you don't give a shit about being the best, you use whatever you want. But don't go around claiming that your job is still the best, or deserves to be the best, or needs to be fixed. You're sacrificing your ability to do things the best way because you want to do things one way. That is how the world works.

[Kagato]

You lost all credibility with this comment.
Double march easily doubles the damage output of all melees, which means killing stuff in half the time it would otherwise take, in an environment where time matters because you have a set limit to it, this is an amazing job to have around, because most, if not all, of your damage will be coming from melees. Fail less please.

The fact that you jumped so quickly to say I lose ALL credibility and that I FAIL for posting an opinion where I welcomed constructive critique basically tells me you're disrespectful just because you feel like you can be.

With so much Haste being thrown around and atmas giving people strong abilities, enemies die in mere seconds of engaging them regardless of how much haste someone has.

Exp mobs die too fast to take full advantage of an extremely high amount of haste since most of the time your team is running around trying to find a monster to claim since they die so fast already. Equipment and JA haste is all that's needed for exp parties. Double march only really shines during zergs, and there are very few opportunities to do that. Enemies either die too quickly for it to matter (exp mobs) or it's just a stupid idea to Zerg (most Abyssea NMs).

If it takes longer than 10 seconds for 3-4 DDs to kill an EXP monster in abyssea with equipment and JA haste, you're fighting the wrong enemies, and only then would more haste to take advantage of zerg tactics start to stand out, but by then, you could have just been fighting something easier to kill anyway and save your alliance slots for DDs.

Now, again, I'm willing to take criticism, but doing so in the way you did was completely uncalled for. I'm not claiming I'm right. I'm only stating my opinion.

[Greatguardian]

You need 50% haste to double damage output over 0% Haste =/.

100% Haste brings your damage output to infinity.

Edit: Any DD worth a shit can 1-shot most every EXP monster in Abyssea at IT level. What do those plebes have to do with anything? Obviously you're bringing a Bard to march you during NMs.

[Rambus]

100% Haste brings your damage output to infinity.

lol
http://www.wattix.com/blog/chilligan/divide-by-zero.jpg

[Hoshi]

The fact that you jumped so quickly to say I lose ALL credibility and that I FAIL for posting an opinion where I welcomed constructive critique basically tells me you're disrespectful just because you feel like you can be.

Double march does not double damage output at all. It increases, but definitely does not double. You need 100% haste to double damage output. Also with so much Haste being thrown around and atmas giving people strong abilities, enemies die in mere seconds of engaging them regardless of how much haste someone has.

Exp mobs die too fast to take full advantage of an extremely high amount of haste since most of the time your team is running around trying to find a monster to claim since they die so fast already. Equipment and JA haste is all that's needed for exp parties. Double march only really shines during zergs, and there are very few opportunities to do that. Enemies either die too quickly for it to matter (exp mobs) or it's just a stupid idea to Zerg (most Abyssea NMs).

If it takes longer than 10 seconds for 3-4 DDs to kill an EXP monster in abyssea with equipment and JA haste, you're fighting the wrong enemies, and only then would more haste to take advantage of zerg tactics start to stand out, but by then, you could have just been fighting something easier to kill anyway and save your alliance slots for DDs.

Now, again, I'm willing to take criticism, but doing so in the way you did was completely uncalled for. I'm not claiming I'm right. I'm only stating my opinion.

Your posts make it sound like the only thing that exists in abyssea is xp. If you're tanking something that has to stay alive for the duration of discerning and proccing red, yellow, (perhaps blue) why wouldn't you want as much haste as is available to you? Why wouldn't you want extra COR buffs on top of your awesome atmas? You're correct that BRD and COR aren't helpful for trash mobs because they die so fast when 14-18 people are thwapping them... but there's so much more to abyssea once all your jobs are capped at 90 and you've run out of places to put merits.

[Kagato]

Your posts make it sound like the only thing that exists in abyssea is xp. If you're tanking something that has to stay alive for the duration of discerning and proccing red, yellow, (perhaps blue) why wouldn't you want as much haste as is available to you? Why wouldn't you want extra COR buffs on top of your awesome atmas? You're correct that BRD and COR aren't helpful for trash mobs because they die so fast when 14-18 people are thwapping them... but there's so much more to abyssea once all your jobs are capped at 90 and you've run out of places to put merits.

I never said this was EXP only. Lets shift gears to NMs then. I did mention them before, after all. Many times, in fact.

Against NMs, DDs are usually doing 2 things:

1) Watching
2) Procing

Unless that DD happens to be a tank, of course. In THAT case, haste is fine. More haste = more damage = better hate kept. That, I understand. However, killing the mob as quickly as possible isn't a good idea when aiming for procs and normally killing goes slowly until the proc is landed, so haste isn't as big of an issue.

Now, lets move on to situations after proc lands. The DDs could go in and zerg depending on the NM, but often times it is unwise. If they CAN zerg, the NM will probably die quickly regardless of Haste, but if you have a Bard or Corsair handy, fine. Nice. Get those buffs. Thing is, they aren't needed and more often than not, aren't even wanted since having another BLM or WHM is better overall. After all, NMs getting beat on by 10 DDs with high haste tends to allow the NM room to spam it's powerful skills and wipe the team before the healers know what happened.

If the NM can't be zerged effectively (most NMs in abyssea), then double march would really only benefit the tank to keep hate, but would certainly feed the NM some fast TP as well by the tank alone.

This is all relative to the tank and his ability to survive using as few resources as possible. Why do you think a MNK and 2 WHMs are enough for almost anything in Abyssea? NM doesn't spam WS, MNK can survive because WHMs have plenty of breathing room between heals and the NM's next major attack, and then everyone is happy.

Long story short, weak exp mobs die too fast for too much haste to matter. Abyssea NMs are too dangerous to zerg due to feeding too much TP to the NM. Therefore, haste given from equipment and job abilities, plus the additional haste from a WHM is all that is ever required. Therefore, BRDs aren't needed. I have never, ever looked at my team and said "damn. Wish we had a BRD right about now." Everything we need for any event in Abyssea is as simple as 4-6 jobs. White Mage, Black Mage, Blue Mage, Ninja, Warrior, Monk and someone with /BRD. No full BRD needed. Ever.

[Greatguardian]

It takes 2 WHMs to keep a MNK alive? TP feed matters?

On what?

[Cream_Soda]

Double march does not double damage output at all. It increases, but definitely does not double. You need 100% haste to double damage output.

Wrong on so many levels.

You may as well stop now, you have no clue what you're talking about. I didn't read the rest of your posts because I honestly couldn't take you seriously after that statement.