Abyssea: Useful jobs and Useless jobs. Your opinions on why.

[Alhanelem]

Your right PLD can tank just fine when playing with useless gimp dds.

No. PLD can tank just fine when playing with any intelligent, competent players. PLD can hit the hate cap just as well as anyone else can, and as long as other people stay below the hate cap, everything's peachy. It doesn't matter what job you're on, if you can't cap hate, you're screwed.

Pup-just awesome DD. Auto CAN land yellow procs, but it's a matter of luck

No, not really, they can't. While I can vouch for double victory smite+light being some major kick ass as a die-hard PUP, nuking automaton will always cast the highest spell that it think will land. In most cases, you can't force it to cast a tier 3/4 spell when it thinks a tier V spell will work.

[Andylynn]

Actually no, PLD is just bad.

PLD is far from bad, it takes little to no damage at all with decent gear and atmas, it just fails miserably at keeping hate because DDs can cap theirs faster, resulting in everything they do taking aggro. It doesn't help with refresh a whm can pretty much keep any clown alive on a lower difficulty nm, resulting in anything that can handle it tanking.

[Greatguardian]

No. PLD can tank just fine when playing with any intelligent, competent players. PLD can hit the hate cap just as well as anyone else can, and as long as other poeople stay below the hate cap, everything's peachy. It doesn't matter what job you're on, if you can't cap hate, you're screwed.

Any intelligent, competent DD is going to hit the hate cap in 1 WS. No dice. Any competent PLD would do the same, but there's no way in hell any good DD should be dropping below the hate cap. Besides, MNK does better tanking than PLD anyways, Counterstance does additional damage to the mob when the MNK has hate, and it takes less damage than PLD with it up. PLD having hate is not a good thing.

PLD is far from bad, it takes little to no damage at all with decent gear and atmas, it just fails miserably at keeping hate because DDs can cap theirs faster, resulting in everything they do taking aggro. It doesn't help with refresh a whm can pretty much keep any clown alive on a lower difficulty nm, resulting in anything that can handle it tanking.

If a PLD is using a Defensive atma, they're doing it wrong. If they're idling in defensive gear, they're doing it wrong. Their gear and their atmas should not be affecting the kind of damage they take. A properly geared PLD will take less damage than a WAR, PUP, DRG, or whatever other non-defensive DD out there. A MNK who knows how to flip their JA on will take less damage than a PLD. No job should give a crap how much damage they take anyways unless their mage is complete and utter suck.

[Fiarlia]

PLD is far from bad, it takes little to no damage at all with decent gear and atmas, it just fails miserably at keeping hate because DDs can cap theirs faster, resulting in everything they do taking aggro. It doesn't help with refresh a whm can pretty much keep any clown alive on a lower difficulty nm, resulting in anything that can handle it tanking.

This is exactly why PLD is just bad. Damage mitigation is a completely null point, since MP is not an issue and other jobs can either exceed or equal the damage mitigated, albeit in different ways. On top of this, every single other job that "can tank" deals superior damage by a truckload. Why on earth would you bring a job that can mitigate damage in such a fantastic way, when there's option with equal or better mitigation that also bring a lot of damage to the table?

The only way a PLD will be able to tank is if the DD's s/he's with are either gimp or they hold back significantly, resulting in even less damage done in the same amount of time and extending the length of fights.

Yes, PLD is bad. Or if saying it that way makes you too sad/angry/angsty, then we can say that PLD isn't bad, but pretty much every other job is far better.

[Andylynn]

This is exactly why PLD is just bad. Damage mitigation is a completely null point, since MP is not an issue and other jobs can either exceed or equal the damage mitigated, albeit in different ways.

Damage mitigation is one of the things that makes MP not an issue. Only dnc and mnk have this option extreme damage mitigation, and only one of them is going to be tanking significant NMs.

On top of this, every single other job that "can tank" deals superior damage by a truckload.

It's not as if PLD is a horrendous DD; vorpal, and in some cases, CDC can offer acceptable damage dealing capability.

Why on earth would you bring a job that can mitigate damage in such a fantastic way, when there's option with equal or better mitigation that also bring a lot of damage to the table?

You make it seem as if every job has this applicable mitigation and thus makes a great tank, but PDT/MDT sets dont instantly make you a pld or mnk.

The only way a PLD will be able to tank is if the DD's s/he's with are either gimp or they hold back significantly, resulting in even less damage done in the same amount of time and extending the length of fights.

When on earth do you ever have any DDs sitting there pelting on the NM at the same time as the tank when the fight is significant enough to warrant it? #1 If you are attempting to get !!, you don't want a DD hitting on the NM to begin with #2 if you found the exception to point 1, why would you want a ton of DDs feeding TP to said nm? Not every NM has an applicable red !! then zerg approach.

Pld is not as horrible as the community makes it seem. It has it rough, and we will approach a day where Abyssea isn't everything to FFXI, what will we do when the 'amazing' DDs go back to without atmas, and a brainless whm w/ cure 6 + infinite MP?

[Mrbeansman]

Damage mitigation is one of the things that makes MP not an issue. Only dnc and mnk have this option extreme damage mitigation, and only one of them is going to be tanking significant NMs.


It's not as if PLD is a horrendous DD; vorpal, and in some cases, CDC can offer acceptable damage dealing capability.

You make it seem as if every job has this applicable mitigation and thus makes a great tank, but PDT/MDT sets dont instantly make you a pld or mnk.


When on earth do you ever have any DDs sitting there pelting on the NM at the same time as the tank when the fight is significant enough to warrant it? #1 If you are attempting to get !!, you don't want a DD hitting on the NM to begin with #2 if you found the exception to point 1, why would you want a ton of DDs feeding TP to said nm? Not every NM has an applicable red !! then zerg approach.

Pld is not as horrible as the community makes it seem. It has it rough, and we will approach a day where Abyssea isn't everything to FFXI, what will we do when the 'amazing' DDs go back to without atmas, and a brainless whm w/ cure 6 + infinite MP?

Do you even know what PDT and MDT sets are?

[Andylynn]

Do you even know what PDT and MDT sets are?

Something a really good pld can cap in one piece of gear.

[svengalis]

Forgot WAR, but compared to RDM/BRD/SAM being able to kill anything before Abyssea it's really an improvement. Other jobs are not as much dead weight as DDs as they used to be either, the only difference is now we could care less about adding damage as everything dies in 2 minutes anyways.

Haha I knew I was leaving one out. How could I forget war.

[Rambus]

have you really seen PLD in abyssea?

for exp, too much

for NM farming, once, and that pt end up whiping.

I do not understand what kind of leg you are trying to stand on saying PLD is fine.

one piece of gear to cap both? uh .. yeah

anyways if a PLD had emp sword and shield i give it a chance, that be the only way though

[Mezzopiano]

Quite plainly, since when do you ever need any sort of job specifics for Abyssea? Everything in there is either too easy to bother with strategy, or can be brewed.