So i leeched my job to 90 in abyssea

[Olor]

off topic but GreatGuardian I love your ridiculously huge sig - is that custom or is there a website I can go to input my own data - not for a sig but just as a checklist for myself?

[Greatguardian]

There will always be bad players, there will always be good players, But this is because of basic difference in human behavior, not because of how the player exp'd. Attempting to blame someone, or call them a bad player, because of their playstyle is immoral and ignorant. So again I will say, Stupid players will be stupid, Smart players will be smart, The way they leveled does not matter, its what they do after they hit 90 that shows strength or weakness.

Thank you. This is what I have been trying to convey.

As far as Tenshi's last post is concerned, I had 2 75s before ToAU was released; 6 75s before WotG was released. I leveled RDM in Abyssea because I thought it might be an interesting tool to have, even though I was perfectly happy with my 6-job spread (MNK, NIN, SAM, WHM, PLD, COR; fairly diverse, with RNG, THF, and DRG on alts). If Abyssea leeching wasn't around, I probably would not have bothered leveling RDM, but it doesn't affect me much either way.

I'm not the best FFXI player in the world, but I'm good at the game. I understand game mechanics and FFXI math (which is mostly algebra and statistics anyways), and I both know how to gear myself and pursue the gear that I need. Any reasonably intelligent player can leech any job to 90 and be better at it than the majority of the game population. FFXI's not hard.

Edit: @Olor, Not that I know of. The original original original version was made by a JP group years and years ago. Someone else on here had a translated, much smaller version as his sig (Alcerin?). As a bit of a joke, Doublesbrian on BG (Phear on here I believe) made this huge, extended version for himself and I asked him to make me one too. I'm not sure if there's an unmarked template around. I think Tsukino_Kaji had one that he posted in a signature thread a few days ago.

[Olor]

Thanks. Guardian.

As for the whole skill/leech debate, I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks getting your levels outside Abyssea makes you a better player automatically. This is speaking as someone who still has never leveled inside Abyssea. I would be willing to bet money that the percentage of good to crappy players on any job remains the same regardless of where they got their exp. after each has had some time to learn the mechanics of the job at cap. It just stands to reason because what you do with a job at cap is generally not the same thing you do with a job while you're getting it to cap.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

No one really said that leveling outside of Abyssea automatically made you better, that was started by the proleechers out of no where. Leveling the old way 1-75, then entering Abyssea, allows a player to experience the job and learn its inner working properly, not rushed and inexperienced by just reading some guides. Also another thing that was put in the anti-Abyssea mouths, who in the hell said you needed to level 75-90 outside of Abyssea, that would be stupid. Abyssea was made so that people at level 75 could continue their leveling.

Does leveling outside Abyssea from 30-75 automatically make you a better player? No, but it does help.

I am guessing there are four sides to this and not two....

The "we dont want Abyssea at all"
the "we want Abyssea and outside to be more balanced" (me btw)
and the "We want it to stay the way it is
and last "we want the game to be nothing but Abyssea"

[Greatguardian]

No one really said that leveling outside of Abyssea automatically made you better, that was started by the proleechers out of no where. Leveling the old way 1-75, then entering Abyssea, allows a player to experience the job and learn its inner working properly, not rushed and inexperienced by just reading some guides. Also another thing that was put in the anti-Abyssea mouths, who in the hell said you needed to level 75-90 outside of Abyssea, that would be stupid. Abyssea was made so that people at level 75 could continue their leveling.

Does leveling outside Abyssea from 30-75 automatically make you a better player? No, but it does help.

While I appreciate that you're not jaded about the merits of overworld EXP, there were a huge number of people who said "Leveling outside of Abyssea is the only way to be good at the game". It was all over the "Raise the cap" thread. Thankfully, most of those posters have given up trying to push it now because it was so heartily rejected. But the "Proleech" (Which is really more Pro-do-whatever-you-want) group did not put the words in anyone's mouths.

Most of the people arguing "For leeching" don't give a shit about leeching. They're just tired of a key bunch of vocal morons who have been screaming for months now about the evils of Abyssea and how SE needs to close it off so everyone does things their way. If SE restricts Abyssea to 75+, not a single crap will be given by most of us. It is simply difficult to sit and read the absolute crap some people spew, especially when the Community Team does actively read this board. I, for one, don't want them thinking all NA players hate Abyssea.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

While I appreciate that you're not jaded about the merits of overworld EXP, there were a huge number of people who said "Leveling outside of Abyssea is the only way to be good at the game". It was all over the "Raise the cap" thread. Thankfully, most of those posters have given up trying to push it now because it was so heartily rejected. But the "Proleech" (Which is really more Pro-do-whatever-you-want) group did not put the words in anyone's mouths.

Most of the people arguing "For leeching" don't give a shit about leeching. They're just tired of a key bunch of vocal morons who have been screaming for months now about the evils of Abyssea and how SE needs to close it off so everyone does things their way. If SE restricts Abyssea to 75+, not a single crap will be given by most of us. It is simply difficult to sit and read the absolute crap some people spew, especially when the Community Team does actively read this board. I, for one, don't want them thinking all NA players hate Abyssea.

true I agree with you, I dont hate Abyssea, nor want it to go anywhere, but at the same time, I feel that in it's current state, it is hurting the game in a way. I want both Abyssea and everywhere else to be adjusted and balanced, so people want to do stuff everywhere, and not just in Abyssea.

[Olor]

As someone who just rerolled I have to agree that Abyssea has had a negative effect on most of the rest of the game, and for those of us who don't really have the Abyssea option, made it a bit harder and less fun to level. That said I've managed to scrape together some parties on the outside - but I can't emphasize how demoralizing it is to solo from 40-42 in the same amount of time it takes someone to get from 65-90. I mean, it makes me feel like I am standing still even though I am actually making pretty good time.

[Greatguardian]

You're really comparing getting a level 75 job to earning a 4-year degree?

FFXI must be way harder than I thought. It must require months of practice, training, and experience to be good at any individual job. fStr, pDif, dDex, Delay, dMND, dINT, WSC, fTP, how do they work!?

FFXI is an amalgam of basic algebra and statistics. It takes a high school education to know the game inside and out. It was never, ever difficult to play any job in the game. Leveling was never an accomplishment.

You know what was an accomplishment? Killing Odin with under 18 back when he was hard. Standing up to AV to run tests on his behavior and stats. Beating Pandemonium Warden. There are accomplishments in FFXI, real ones, and not very many people can lay claim to them. Those haven't been cheapened by the advent of Abyssea; no, they have been immortalized. No one else for the remainder of the game's life can lay claim to beating PW at 75 than the people who have already done so.

[Tenshibaby]

Since comparing something to anything other than itself seems to lose some of you, let me dumb it down:
You didn't "win" the debate over the appropriateness of easy leveling in Abyssea with any logical foundation. It is always popular to do things the easy way, just as doing things the right way is often unpopular. If enough lazy or incapable people shouted down those of us who know better, that doesn't mean you won.

Does it bug you when I deem the traditional way the "right way"? Good. I stand by it, and the current state of the game (and forums with 90 BRD asking which skills he needs) stand as my evidence.

[Greatguardian]

Since comparing something to anything other than itself seems to lose some of you, let me dumb it down:
You didn't "win" the debate over the appropriateness of easy leveling in Abyssea with any logical foundation. It is always popular to do things the easy way, just as doing things the right way is often unpopular. If enough lazy or incapable people shouted down those of us who know better, that doesn't mean you won.

Does it bug you when I deem the traditional way the "right way"? Good. I stand by it, and the current state of the game (and forums with 90 BRD asking which skills he needs) stand as my evidence.

What, exactly, has changed about the current state of the game again?

Let's compare to 2009, before Abyssea was announced:

Before: Most successful Endgame shells had active rosters of 20+ members. Formal linkshell schedules and events were needed by most shells in order to accomplish things, as the majority of Endgame content needed 12+ of them online and present. There is a HUGE gap in gear acquisition and event completion between HNM/Elite shells and Shout-tier shells.

After: Most successful Abyssea groups are comprised of 3-5 members. Formal schedules no longer exist as events require only 2 people to be present to make progress. A "Middle class" is formed in between the HNM/Elite shells and Shout-tier shells, typically calling themselves "Abyssea Shells". Casual players are now able to obtain the same armor as the Elite players, at a pace befitting their schedule.

Before: Any tard with an invite flag can get an invite to a Colibri party and get level 75. Even if they wear full AF and a Bronze Axe, Casual gamers are too concerned with being "nice" and "polite" to kick these leeches from the party. Even when sensible players would kick these leeches, someone would have a nervous breakdown in the party because of how "Mean" it was, and start flaming said person on Allak. Thus, the majority of players dealt with the shit-tier because it was less work.

After: Any tard with an invite flag can still get an invite to an Abyssea party and get level 90. Even if they wear full AF and a Bronze Axe, no one cares because they're actually contributing something to the group when they key chests, and they aren't using up 17% of the party's available slots because EXP is now conducted in Alliances. Has Abyssea stopped shitty players from getting 90? No. Has it made it easier? Not really, no. Has it made it less time consuming? Yes, it made all EXP less time consuming. What Abyssea did do, though, is lessen the impact that those shit-tier gimps have on everyone else in the party.

Before: About 95% of the FFXI population has an IQ less than potato.

After: About 95% of the FFXI population has an IQ less than potato.

Well shit.