Free hand-outs?

[Diavolo]

I don't think that login campaigns and Gobby dials are anything to do with FFXIV or WOW. These things, and many others, are a response to the User Feedback from FFXI players right here on this FFXI Forum.

The problem is that they're only using feedback from a tiny fraction of the players if/when they do that and there's no way of knowing how well those posting on this forum represent the general population. You won't catch me speaking on behalf of others, claiming that a large number of players agree with me in order to sway an argument one way or another because there's simply no way to validate such claims. My mistake (and theirs) is not taking part in the discussions here sooner.

I will join /shout groups for fun, not for gear. I will kill Mission bosses just to help people, even though I have wins. I am not alone. Many people will join shouts for endgame content, because they like to play the game, and gear is nice but not the sole reason. On quiet low-pop servers, there are not many shouts, and uptake from shouts is very slow. I would suggest that this is the problem, and not the evil free stuffs login points and Gobby dials.

That is indeed a problem and I've made my opinion known in the last server merge thread that came up.

[Stompa]

The problem is that they're only using feedback from a tiny fraction of the players if/when they do that and there's no way of knowing how well those posting on this forum represent the general population. You won't catch me speaking on behalf of others, claiming that a large number of players agree with me in order to sway an argument one way or another because there's simply no way to validate such claims. My mistake (and theirs) is not taking part in the discussions here sooner.



That is indeed a problem and I've made my opinion known in the last server merge thread that came up.

Well, as I see it there are two main points here really.

You don't like UNM Dial, because you feel that it will damage the Unity system, in that you will be shouting for a UNM and you need a WHM, and the WHM will not join because they got all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial.

I think this is very unlikely. Number one, most people will prefer to use Linkshell members, as they know they can trust those players more than random PUG players. Number two, the WHM or w/e job you are shouting for, has to be online when you are shouting, they can't be doing other events like Ambuscade etc. They have to be online, and free, and wanting to farm that specific UNM. And for your theory to work, that person also has to have obtained the drops from that UNM already, via Gobby Box. I would describe the odds of this situation occurring as microscopic. The odds of it happening so often that it affects the UNM system, are basically too small to even compute. Especially as the Gobby Dial seems to give random junk instead of gear, around 99% of the time. I still haven't got a single piece of gear from the UNM dial after many attempts.

The second point is that you have to balance the Pros and Cons. The Cons I have detailed above, are incredibly tiny and unlikely. The Pros of having "fun mini-games and timed events with random lucky stuff" are that MANY people really enjoy that kind of fun. People even pay $$$ for extra content IDs, just to do Login Points and to spin the Gobby Dials. People enjoy it. People pay extra subs for it. Paying extra subs keeps the game online.

I think complaining about things that other people enjoy, and they are paying subs for it, is actually missing the big picture, which is that the game needs all the subs it can get, and SE are adding fun mini-game / event content because they know that a lot of people enjoy that kind of stuff. I think it is good that people enjoy FFXI, and pay subs. Anything else is just opinions, opinions which would mean nothing at all if the game was offline due to lack of subs.

[Diavolo]

You don't like UNM Dial, because you feel that it will damage the Unity system, in that you will be shouting for a UNM and you need a WHM, and the WHM will not join because they got all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial.

My feelings towards the free hand-outs extends to quality of rewards from the special dial as well as all the campaign-specific dials such as the UNM one currently in play and no, it's not about people getting "all their UNM stuff from the Gobby Dial", it's getting anything at all from it. It all has an impact, be it positive or negative, to some degree and that is the case with each and every coffer popped everyday. The AH suddenly has more UNM items available and players now have access to more of their gear, NQ and HQ alike, all of that without a single second spent taking part in Unity Wanted Battles at all. Going a step further, you have to consider the effect it has on player interaction, both with others in the game and the content itself. Casual players like Cabalabob who don't pay much attention to RoE may pop the chest and think "Oh wow, where's this come from?" then proceed to attempt the battle on their own or with LS mates/friends/PUGs in order to get gear or items to +1 whatever they got. Raising awareness is always a positive.

It goes the other way, too, of course. For example, those few Celine Vines that might have kept you fighting the UNM til you got enough to +1 your gear will now have you leaving the fight early, not enjoying that final fight that will be remembered for the WHM that solo'd it at 1%. Those few Sarama hides you got from the dial and you sold on the AH will now be bought by a BLU so he can +1 the Tanmogayi he got from his daily dial, making him decide against taking part in a late night Sarama run with his LS mates because he already got what he considered its best drop, in turn denying him access to the Tumult Curator fight they'd spontaneously decide to do one night down the road. Basically, the butterfly effect.

The second point is that you have to balance the Pros and Cons. The Cons I have detailed above, are incredibly tiny and unlikely. The Pros of having "fun mini-games and timed events with random lucky stuff" are that MANY people really enjoy that kind of fun. People even pay $$$ for extra content IDs, just to do Login Points and to spin the Gobby Dials. People enjoy it. People pay extra subs for it. Paying extra subs keeps the game online.

The goblin dials aren't mini games at all, they're simply a brief menu of options. While receiving nice gear is something that might bring you joy, I'm not sure how you find navigating said menu to be fun.

Again, I have nothing against those goblin chests, but I do wish they weren't handing out stuff we should ideally all be out there playing to get a hold of. I thought Escha/Reis made for a nice return to more old school battlegrounds with content rising in difficulty as you progressed through the ranks... then a lot of those drops got handed to us for free via goblin dials. Was that really necessary to keep the more casual among us interested in logging in? I'm quite certain they'd have been just as happy with other rewards.

Also, I find the claim that people are paying $13/month or more for content IDs solely to roll the dice at the goblin dials you yourself claim give random junk 99% of the time a bit much. Lots of people pay for multiple accounts, myself included, but since the goblin dials and login points started I have yet to come across a single person claiming that was the reason they were doing it. Does anyone here do that?

I think complaining about things that other people enjoy, and they are paying subs for it, is actually missing the big picture, which is that the game needs all the subs it can get, and SE are adding fun mini-game / event content because they know that a lot of people enjoy that kind of stuff. I think it is good that people enjoy FFXI, and pay subs. Anything else is just opinions, opinions which would mean nothing at all if the game was offline due to lack of subs.

If you are paying $13/month to roll the dice on gear from the goblin dial and enjoy it, that's fine. As you know, I'm all for providing options. If you believe charging people $13/month to roll the dice at the goblin dial is a good way to encourage people to return/subscribe to a long running MMORPG like Final Fantasy XI then I will vehemently disagree.

It made me look up unity wanted NMs cause I didn't know what they were so, raises awareness of the content I guess. If you get a NQ piece you'll still have to fight the NM to upgrade it.

You're right about raising awareness, I suppose. You can upgrade the gear simply by buying the materials from the AH/bazaars, though.

[Pixela]

Also, I find the claim that people are paying $13/month or more for content IDs solely to roll the dice at the goblin dials you yourself claim give random junk 99% of the time a bit much. Lots of people pay for multiple accounts, myself included, but since the goblin dials and login points started I have yet to come across a single person claiming that was the reason they were doing it. Does anyone here do that?

If you are paying $13/month to roll the dice on gear from the goblin dial and enjoy it, that's fine. As you know, I'm all for providing options. If you believe charging people $13/month to roll the dice at the goblin dial is a good way to encourage people to return/subscribe to a long running MMORPG like Final Fantasy XI then I will vehemently disagree.

I do just that, as I've already said. I have capped character slots for these events, I enjoy doing them every day as a chance to scratch that lottery card to get something nice. I also know that a ton of other people do the same on Asura, I know because there is an army of level 1 characters with ?? next to their name checking that box every day. It's a zerg rush at jp midnight.

The gobbie boxes are a great addition, I'm really glad they added it and I can genuinely say that I probably would of left and gone back to one of my other mmorpg titles by now if not for the few nice items I have obtained from them, mainly because they gave me a nice item at a point when I was bored and had nothing I could do because my gear isn't good enough and the "community" sucks. They do the most important thing they were added to do, give casual players an incentive to log-in every day. For an mmo the main way you keep people playing is to keep them coming every day to keep the addiction in check, when people start skipping days they start losing the addiction.

I've played a lot of these games and most of them have some system that makes you log-in every day, this is the one FFXI chose.

If you don't like it then that's fine, you don't have to do it. You lose nothing from not doing it because you can get whatever you want anyway, it's not really for you as such because you're already heavily invested and here to stay. You have reason enough to log-in, you have the ffxi world as your oyster.

End of the day, you are a player telling the devs you don't like an incredibly popular piece of content. These are people that have all the server logs of everything, this is their job and you're back seat driving telling them that all these players who enjoy it are wrong and they should remove it because you know better than them.

[Diavolo]

I do just that, as I've already said. I have capped character slots for these events, I enjoy doing them every day as a chance to scratch that lottery card to get something nice. I also know that a ton of other people do the same on Asura, I know because there is an army of level 1 characters with ?? next to their name checking that box every day. It's a zerg rush at jp midnight.

You pay for 33 characters or more across 3 content IDs, spend time logging into all of them daily for login points/Goblin chests, and you know for a fact there are lots of other people on Asura doing the same? You've painted quite a picture here when paired with the comments about your unwillingness to play with others (save for a friend).

Asura is still an active server and you likely already know like-minded individuals there, some of whom probably also post here. I don't see why you couldn't obtain all the gear you've already received from the goblin chests and far more teaming up with a few other people in a social setting. I mean, you're likely spending an hour everyday just cycling through all your characters.

The gobbie boxes are a great addition, I'm really glad they added it and I can genuinely say that I probably would of left and gone back to one of my other mmorpg titles by now if not for the few nice items I have obtained from them, mainly because they gave me a nice item at a point when I was bored and had nothing I could do because my gear isn't good enough and the "community" sucks.

...says the person that doesn't play with others?

FFXI has a strong community to this day, even on the smaller servers. My time on Asura was limited, but I accomplished a great deal in a very short amount of time with people I had only just come to meet there. I'd have made it my permanent home if not for some good friends and longtime acquaintances still playing on Cerberus. Their interest in the game has sharply declined as of late, so maybe I'll see you soon enough.

If you don't like it then that's fine, you don't have to do it. You lose nothing from not doing it because you can get whatever you want anyway, it's not really for you as such because you're already heavily invested and here to stay. You have reason enough to log-in, you have the ffxi world as your oyster.

We all do. Take advantage of it.

End of the day, you are a player telling the devs you don't like an incredibly popular piece of content. These are people that have all the server logs of everything, this is their job and you're back seat driving telling them that all these players who enjoy it are wrong and they should remove it because you know better than them.

While I think you may be overestimating the development team's understanding of the day to day workings of their worlds, that's not quite what I've been saying.

[Pixela]

I gotta be honest in that I've lost interest arguing with you in this pointless back and fourth, I simply wanted to point out that a large part of why I play are these log-in events (since you asked) and they are the reason I pay +$20 to $30 more than I would normally pay on a monthly basis.

Hopefully next months will be event better, more AB# keys would be great. Jovian body I got last month made me really happy.

[Diavolo]

I disagree with you that it is anyone's business if Person X really enjoys Logins and Gobby Dials. It is nobody else's business! It really doesn't affect the economy, or LS events, or anything. The effects are tiny. Nobody is stopping you from fighting Tumult with your LS mates. I think it is a bit wrong for you to say that some person who enjoys spinning Gobby Dials and doing Login Events is going to destroy your LS Tumult Event by somehow undermining the marketplace and making LS members unwilling to join in. I would say that is ridiculous!

It can and does affect the economy, event participation and such, to wildly varying degrees. Hand a crafter a Kupo Shield and see what that does to cursed gear prices on your server.