Make the Relic and Empyrean WSs Questable

[Andylynn]

NO, These WS don't need to be questable, NO, i don't want to watch full retarded peopel walking around in full MNK relic saying "look at my VS!"

this por favor.

[Malamasala]

But whatever, arguing that these should be questable when most ppl think its stupid is pointless since they have to be "unique to the ppl who put in the time twords the weapon".

The only people against it are those who have the weapons, and if most have them, what is the difference between all and most having access? Is there some rule that everyone in FFXI should have empyreans?

[Seriha]

Never been a fan of hiding WS behind overly long hoops. Nyzul was pushing that limit between disc requirements and the initial randomness of weapons, but they at least alleviated the last hurdle by the 100 boss dropping the job of the disc user. Still, needing thousands of WS if you're not on 100, particularly in this day and age when Nyzul isn't popular, still makes it something agitating to do for those who missed the initial popularity.

In general, I'm for the idea. WoE weapons can lead up to an eventual quest or trial. The "fake relics" can have the same. I'd also be interested in level 99 weapons of other paths having access to the various Empyrean WS, but that can be nixed if a permanent option is possible. The main versions will still have their benefit of the Aftermath effect, and if some other weapon risks being better without it, future versions can have further improved stats to compensate.

[TybudX]

The only people against it are those who have the weapons,

Empyreal WSs are easy to get because the two ways of getting them (WoE, actual Empyreal weapons) are on par with being the burger flipper and being the french fry guy at a McDonalds, respectively.

and if most have them, what is the difference between all and most having access?

Uh, wut?

stuff

1. Nyzul Isle is easily done with 3 people now. I would go as far as to say that a competent group (as in one with somebody who can solve lamp floors) can probably do 10 floors every run, so getting from floor 1 to floor 100 should take all of 5 hours.

2. The point of Empyrean weapons is most definitely the WS. WoEs weapons are junk compared to other options, but slapping an Empyrean WS on them makes them #2.

Here's what I want to know. For all those people who think the Empyreal WSs should be separated from the weapons, how do you propose they be made available? A simple quest seems to be way too much work. I mean, WoEs takes a few hours. A few hours. It is quite possibly the most brain dead content SE has ever thrown at us, but as it stands it's too much work for access to the second best weapons for pretty much every job in the game. I guess they should just require a skill level to get, then? And while we're at it, lets make everybody happy. Lets remove the job specific part inherent to the weapons themselves. Lets make the WSs available as long as the job you are on can get the necessary skill level. Oh wait, I just had a thought! How about instead of still having to work for the weapons, lets just have you ding into them! Once you get a job to the level required, the weapon just appears in your inventory. I mean, most people have them already, right? May as well start giving that **** away. Holy crap, I just had another idea... lets not stop there! We can all ding into gear, too! I mean, why quest that ****, right? That takes too long. I just want to join bad exp alliances and ding into gear and /shout in port Jeuno that I still need Divine Might, even though SE gave me all the earrings and you can duo it in about 2 minutes now. Yeah! That would be ****ing awesome!

[Seriha]

I guess I missed the memo where WoE weapons mysteriously drop into a person's lap without camping NMs, hunting down VNMs, doing WoE itself, collecting seals, etc..

WoE itself taking only a few hours is a gross generalization, too. Is it crowded? Are people lotting against you? Did you get your tenth Decay pouch when going for Glory? There's a reason a lot of people hate WoE, and it's not because it's "easy" to do.

And that would only be but a step in the process. Nobody's suggesting the moment you get the WoE sword the WS is yours forever. Just a step in the process. The weapon itself will never become useless with that final end in mind, as it would have served a purpose.

[Afrohatch]

This game would have died off a long long time ago if everything was so easy to get. It's nice knowing that there's somewhat of a "challenge" still, and you're kidding yourself if you think that camping NMs/VNMs/WoE is too hard to get an empyrean WS. Time consuming, yes, but time consumption is how a MMORPG thrives.

[Denabond]

Stuff

First of all, i never insisted that it be a piss easy quest where you just go, talk to the NPC, then bam you get the emp WS. I expect either a long and involved quest where you either 1 do an absurd amount of SCs (I'm talking in the 1-2k WS points range, not 250) or 2 kill a very hard NM where you need a skilled pt to kill it (preferably not in abyssea so ppl cant just brew it), or a combination of both. Make it so you NEED to get the WoE or Emp weapon to even start the quest. But apparently that's equal to just handing it out to every noob on the server.

As for the point of Emp weapons being the WS, idk about you, but isn't there that huge stat buff on it? Like idk, +15 Str on Verethragna, or the +15 Dex on Twashtar? Also what about the ODD aftermath? Well apparently, those aren't unique to the Emp weapons, so yeah they are TOTALLY WORTHLESS if ppl could quest for the WS. As for the WoE weapons being useless, ignoring the fact that its mentioned that they would be used to even start the quest, they still have the 3rd or 4th highest base DMG compared to all the other weapons (a few of them have the same base dmg as Mythic weapons). And even if the WoE weapons were made obsolete, so what? Since apparently they only take a few hours to complete (they aren't, but I'm just gonna go with what you said), everyone already has them. So making it so they are questable wouldn't really change the total amount of ppl who have the WS anyways.

This game would have died off a long long time ago if everything was so easy to get. It's nice knowing that there's somewhat of a "challenge" still, and you're kidding yourself if you think that camping NMs/VNMs/WoE is too hard to get an empyrean WS. Time consuming, yes, but time consumption is how a MMORPG thrives.

So if the quest for the WS took 3-4 months to complete, would you be fine with it?

[Andylynn]

As for the point of Emp weapons being the WS, idk about you, but isn't there that huge stat buff on it? Like idk, +15 Str on Verethragna, or the +15 Dex on Twashtar? Also what about the ODD aftermath?

the problem is, even though it may be a difficult quest, even without the AM to factor into their DPS, the skills are far too powerful to be in the hands of someone who just went an easy route, and took the equivalent of doing a ws trial. to me it feels like another cheap way to gimp people out of actually having to work for weapons, (weapon that are already laughably easy, why youd need to quest the ws is beyond me.)

[Seriha]

Not everyone has dual-boxes or people they can reliably weasel into spending hours upon hours for an individual person's benefit. Sure, compared to Relic weapons, Empyreans are a lot easier to get, but it's still a far cry from the implication they just fall into everyone's lap who even thinks about getting one. This doesn't even touch issues like bottlenecks at Gukumatz, Amun, and so on.

I'm somewhat puzzled by the logic demanding people that suck should basically be denied an avenue that could help them not suck as much. And from the timesink angle, finishing a modestly difficult quest would likely leave the person wanting to make another weapon to better take advantage their new found WS. For example, people who unlock CDC might want to make a DEX Shamshir to get (at present) a DEX+9 weapon to help with the WS mods. Or they could go for DA+10% sword. Whatever. It is, by no means, an insinuation that the Empyrean weapons themselves should fall behind so all the cool kids can still keep their snowflake status.

[Denabond]

the problem is, even though it may be a difficult quest, even without the AM to factor into their DPS, the skills are far too powerful to be in the hands of someone who just went an easy route, and took the equivalent of doing a ws trial. to me it feels like another cheap way to gimp people out of actually having to work for weapons, (weapon that are already laughably easy, why youd need to quest the ws is beyond me.)

If the quest required you to get the WoE or Emp weapon to begin with, there really isnt a easy mode to begin with, since they will have to put in the time and effort to get those weapons. While the WoE weapons aren't as hard to get as Emp weapons, they are still superior to everything else cause they will still have the stat bonuses and AM. And as for why I want to quest instead of just using the weapon, its to even out the difference in power between the relic and emp weapons, and so if they release a weapon later on that's is like relic/mythic/emp (in which they will probably do) I can still use the WS i worked so hard for on another weapon.