Nerf Beastmaster

[Cyleena]

You say all shouts are for BST. Guy posts list of shouts on your server clearly demonstrating that what you said isn't true. You try to ignore that. How is that twisting words?

And What does my character info have to do with the discussion? Why should I be afraid to say who I am? are you going to harass me elsewhere?

He picked a day full of VW shouts to say that lol. He needs to be on when there is SR etc shouts. I am not the only one who seen this on Asura. Even Sogoro came on the game last night and sent me a tell saying you are right there is lots of bst shouts.

And seriously plz, do not flatter yourself into thinking that I would want to harass you. You are the one on here saying that people are saying stuff that they never said, etc. I have a right to defend myself from baseless accusations on here. I just think its kinda pathetic that someone has to act like you are acting and be hiding on a mule like they do not want others to know who they really are. I am not afraid to show my char name, and from what I am seeing most others are not either. Too bad there has to be people like you on the forum. Most people on here are pretty cool people. Anyway you like to start stuff up with everyone I hear so I am just going to ignore you and your baseless accusations and carry on.

[bazookatooth]

He picked a day full of VW shouts to say that lol. He needs to be on when there is SR etc shouts. I am not the only one who seen this on Asura. Even Sogoro came on the game last night and sent me a tell saying you are right there is lots of bst shouts.

So we're only supposed to look at the shouts if they say what you want them to say.... sounds logical. /smh

And seriously plz, do not flatter yourself into thinking that I would want to harass you. You are the one on here saying that people are saying stuff that they never said, etc. I have a right to defend myself from baseless accusations on here. I just think its kinda pathetic that someone has to act like you are acting and be hiding on a mule like they do not want others to know who they really are. I am not afraid to show my char name, and from what I am seeing most others are not either. Anyway you like to start stuff up with everyone I hear so I am just going to ignore you and your baseless accusations and carry on.

When you say that I'm hiding, it implies that I have something to be hiding from. That sounds like a threat if ever I heard one. And you are harassing me. You've taken a topic that was loosely going on about the strengths and weaknesses of different jobs (centered primarily around BST) and turned it into a conversation about how people just don't like beast masters and how people are scared to show their identities. None of what you are saying is relevant in any way to the topic. It's all just vitriol about who hates what job the most.

[Cyleena]

So we're only supposed to look at the shouts if they say what you want them to say.... sounds logical. /smh



When you say that I'm hiding, it implies that I have something to be hiding from. That sounds like a threat if ever I heard one. And you are harassing me. You've taken a topic that was loosely going on about the strengths and weaknesses of different jobs (centered primarily around BST) and turned it into a conversation about how people just don't like beast masters and how people are scared to show their identities. None of what you are saying is relevant in any way to the topic. It's all just vitriol about who hates what job the most.

You do not know what threat or harassment means I guess. Go read the definition. I did not threaten you or anyone on here. Anyway I am done with this because it is pointless and stupid to go around with you and it is not worth anymore of my time. /ignorelist

[dasva]

Oh and look a Tenzen shout for normal asking for a bst... lol

I'd rather use a DD for that... now Ouryu heck yeah the conal moves work he is up. That said it's if you are shouting for specific jobs outside of maybe whm on any Normal high tier battle I'm going to laugh at you. That's more of a sign of people not realizing that is completely soloable and a joke with basically any setup.

It is interesting that current content Asura is bst or broke while Shiva is more or less mage or gtfo though smn was used for awhile. Wonder if it's just prevailing attitudes or if it might have something to do with how well those jobs or generally... or perhaps how good the pertinent support is. Physical dmg in general tends to fall apart without a good amount of -def/evasion on hard content and I have noticed not a lot of great geos over here and while I'm sure some exist I haven't personally seen an Idris so maybe that might have something to do with it? I know a lot of people were complaining about the evasion/meva of SR mobs when it came out so that kind of made smn popular since it has a move that bypasses those checks albeit for meh dmg

[Cyleena]

I'd rather use a DD for that... now Ouryu heck yeah the conal moves work he is up. That said it's if you are shouting for specific jobs outside of maybe whm on any Normal high tier battle I'm going to laugh at you. That's more of a sign of people not realizing that is completely soloable and a joke with basically any setup.

It is interesting that current content Asura is bst or broke while Shiva is more or less mage or gtfo though smn was used for awhile. Wonder if it's just prevailing attitudes or if it might have something to do with how well those jobs or generally... or perhaps how good the pertinent support is. Physical dmg in general tends to fall apart without a good amount of -def/evasion on hard content and I have noticed not a lot of great geos over here and while I'm sure some exist I haven't personally seen an Idris so maybe that might have something to do with it? I know a lot of people were complaining about the evasion/meva of SR mobs when it came out so that kind of made smn popular since it has a move that bypasses those checks albeit for meh dmg

I totally agree with what you are saying about the HTBF setups. Almost any of them can be low manned. I think the current content of Asura is a little bit of both of what you were saying. It is prevailing attitudes mixed with how well the jobs perform. Like I mentioned in other posts me and Sogoro (another poster) were sitting on Asura last night watching shouts while talking in tell, and Sogoro actually talked to someone who was shouting for bst for Escha who wanted capped JP bst only. The guy had the attitude that he wants guaranteed wins for the NM and that is why he was taking cap JP only jobs. You and I both know that cap might help a lot but it is not necessary to get kills. That is just what the person probably saw other groups do and saw the difference it made and and preferred his groups to be that way too.

My experience with people on Asura is that if they are in a group that kills something a certain way and they like that way they are not up for changing setups if they know it kills fast and works. I have been on Asura for several years, and once groups find out strats that work for them (my group is guilty of this somewhat as well) we tend to stick to that setup. The mind set is kill fast so they can spam and get more kills in and more chances of drops/gear. The support also is a thing as well. DD setups need way more support then groups with bst, and finding good support people has been getting harder and harder cause not many want to play those rolls anymore. I see this all the time if I have a member quit and I try to find someone to replace them on a support roll level.

[kylani]

Realistically speaking before the big boost there was not that many who thought of bst as a main job. Yes, there is some out there, and it is mostly people who would solo a lot on game. End game shells never looked for bst to join before they became powerful. I run a end game LS and deal with tons of people on game, and I can not really think of any who consider bst main before they made beast powerful that did not solo a lot. I am not saying they are not out there, I am just saying that unless you soloed a lot other jobs were more used. I have handled lots of applications from people and I can not think of any over the years that said bst was main. That being said I know there is people out there that consider it their main but since it became more powerful there was a lot of bandwagon people that jumped on just like there was when thf, blue, etc became powerful. It is how it goes, and we all know that. I was just saying that this whole thing is a very touchy topic off forum and on the forums. I have seen people talk bad about bsts in groups I was in and the people who were on bst were saying they were going to log off etc just cause it got them that upset (bst was not their main, and they did bandwagon it), and I have seen this happen more then once. I know of some people who even have joked about bst or teased people who were on bst about it needing to be nerfed (I did not say it did so please do not twist these words), and the people on bst get super upset over it. That being said this happens anytime any job gets powerful, look at sam, thf etc when they all got boosted, then eventually nerfed.

It is kinda sad that a person cannot even come on the forums and give personal opinions and experiences without people twisting their words, and trying to put words in their mouth (not talking about you Olor). Especially when they have not even said anything bad about the job, or said it needed to be nerfed. I can see people wanting to defend the job they love but people not even saying anything bad about the job are being criticized, and having words twisted into something they not even said.

I did feel that your comments were negative initially too, but I hope it's just differences between servers/perceptions. When I hear bandwagon bsts and that no one really had a bst main till the job became 'overpowered', it raises my hackles a bit. I'm glad I'm not on Asura.

I'm not a bandwagon BST. I have known some wonderful BSTs who were full of fun and a joy to play with. I loved the job best when leveling to 75 and charm was the main way to level. I found it exciting and different. I still remember the joy of getting leave. Back then before leave, you had to have your pet die or mischarm before the mob you were killing died or take exp hit. With leave, you still had to time when to let go, but at least you had more control. It was a godsend. Leave isn't much of a deal anymore, lol, but I still enjoy BST most and consider BST my main job.

I think that ever since leveling became easier, there have always been people who will switch to the flavor of the month job, and there always will be. The hatred that I've seen towards BST seems new and particularly unpleasant to me.

As leader of a ls, I bet you've said or heard, if you want to participate in end game, level the job that's needed. Now that folks are switching to BST because it's useful, BST are all bad players that everyone else hates. Was every person who ever switched to BRD/SAM/MONK/WHM etc to get end game gear also labeled as bad players with jobs that need nerfing? I don't understand why BST is so different. Content can be done with other jobs. It's the people who have the perception. It sounds like we agree on that part of the equation.

Even though BST is my favorite job, I have never been in an endgame ls with BST as main. When I joined my first Dynamis ls, I agreed to play RDM but wanted to list BST as my main for the relic, and the leader listed me as RDM anyway. He told me no one wanted BST gear so I'd get it on free lot easily, and he was right. Often, the BST relic just dropped because no one even wanted it on free lot. I get why BST hasn't been wanted. My leader would have let me play as BST (and my ls would, my ls was AWESOME!), but I knew the issues with BST so I played the most helpful job I had.

I duoed thru Abyssea with a PUP, and it was great fun, but other jobs could solo/duo far quicker with less risk and less cost. BST was a joke for Delve and Skirmish. I think any job could hit better than my pet. I know our WHM did (though he was a truly amazing WHM, so I'm not sure it's fair to go by him. I just know my pet whiffed with all the accuracy pet gear i could drum up). So I played BRD and BLM, occasionally RDM. My pup friend leveled PLD and SMN. We never fussed about how OP monks were with Formless Strikes. Much fun as we had completing the content, I got burned out working for gear for jobs I didn't love instead of playing BST or RDM, so I took a break. When I came back, I promised myself I would not do end game and haven't. I've focused on story and leveling whatever I felt like leveling, and it's been great.

Now that BST is good for content and folks are hating on it so badly, it rankles. I have friends who win without BST just fine. Do you really think people need BST to win the Tenzen fight? If so, then maybe Asura has bigger problems than too many BSTs. Maybe on Asura, people playing other jobs are terrible.

[Olor]

If they were being honest, they would have noted BST was shouted as an option for that tenzen shout not a requirement. They were also shouting for a whm iirc. So 3 whm. Whm is overpowered, needs to be nerft, amirite? After all, shouts favour whms! (bad logic)

I checked a random time and recorded what was being shouted for. BST was not as in demand as pld, whm, cor or geo. That's what I see *all the time* on Asura. Shouts for PLD and for support jobs. Yes, once in awhile there is a shout for a BST. Why is that a problem? Lots of jobs get shouted for. Why is it only a problem when for once in the 13 years of FFXI history - people want to have a bst in their party for a couple of events?

Just checked now. What do I see?

Unity shout: Tank Whm
Vagary Brash gate: GEO BLU WHM or RDM
Sinister reign: GEO or BRD
Skirmish: DDX2 WHM GEO or BRD (DD Filled now, just looking for support)
Sinister reign: pst PLD or RUN

proof: http://i.imgur.com/Dzj61e7.jpg

So another random sample, another example - what's most popular? PLD and WHM GEO and BRD.

WAIT I THOUGHT ONLY BST WANTED FOR SR?!?!? Nope. just tanks and mages wanted.

Yes, once in a blue moon people shout for BSTs. But in reality, the same kind of jobs people always shouted for are still most popular. It gets my goat that now that BST isn't just absolutely pointless and terrible for every single relevant event, people are upset.

[dasva]

If they were being honest, they would have noted BST was shouted as an option for that tenzen shout not a requirement. They were also shouting for a whm iirc. So 3 whm. Whm is overpowered, needs to be nerft, amirite? After all, shouts favour whms! (bad logic)

Whm kind of is in a dominate healing position. The solution of course isn't to nerf whm but give other jobs cure V and/or convert hp healed to mp!

[Olor]

Whm kind of is in a dominate healing position. The solution of course isn't to nerf whm but give other jobs cure V and/or convert hp healed to mp!

I agree with this by the way. I would love to see RDM and sch have options to main heal. Whm will still have arise, full cure, benediction, yagrush, etc, but people could try different set ups.

[Cyleena]

If they were being honest, they would have noted BST was shouted as an option for that tenzen shout not a requirement. They were also shouting for a whm iirc. So 3 whm. Whm is overpowered, needs to be nerft, amirite? After all, shouts favour whms! (bad logic)

I checked a random time and recorded what was being shouted for. BST was not as in demand as pld, whm, cor or geo. That's what I see *all the time* on Asura. Shouts for PLD and for support jobs. Yes, once in awhile there is a shout for a BST. Why is that a problem? Lots of jobs get shouted for. Why is it only a problem when for once in the 13 years of FFXI history - people want to have a bst in their party for a couple of events?

Just checked now. What do I see?

Unity shout: Tank Whm
Vagary Brash gate: GEO BLU WHM or RDM
Sinister reign: GEO or BRD
Skirmish: DDX2 WHM GEO or BRD (DD Filled now, just looking for support)
Sinister reign: pst PLD or RUN

proof: http://i.imgur.com/Dzj61e7.jpg

So another random sample, another example - what's most popular? PLD and WHM GEO and BRD.

WAIT I THOUGHT ONLY BST WANTED FOR SR?!?!? Nope. just tanks and mages wanted.

Yes, once in a blue moon people shout for BSTs. But in reality, the same kind of jobs people always shouted for are still most popular. It gets my goat that now that BST isn't just absolutely pointless and terrible for every single relevant event, people are upset.

Look again at shouts:

http://i.imgur.com/LA8dKeP.png

There is 3 SR shouts within the last hour all wanting bst. Some of the shouts you posted were after the bst spot got filled. Of course people will still shout for whm, tank, cor etc after filling other spots. Anyone can go look at shouts and see them.