Classic server, what's the argument against it now?

[Prrsha]

The two statements don't conflict with each other.

They appear to conflict to me.

[Prrsha]

All I see in this thread is a bunch of arguing back and forth.
The truth of the matter is that a "classic" server would not get enough subscriptions back to justify running it.
If you would like to play on a "classic" server do some digging online you will find what you are looking for.

Some people like myself would not like to break piracy rules. My wife wants to go to a private server after the trial is over. I cannot keep her from doing so as she can do as she wishes. It just saddens me that in order to join her (or many of my friends) I would have to take money away from SE and give it as a donation to keep said private servers running.

It's just my personal opinion on the matter but as time goes on and I drift away from FFXI as it is now, my options grow few.

The reason why I post this and come down hard on SE at times is that I love the company and wish it success but with every patch since WoTG they have done nothing but lose subs (many of which were my friends who liked the game how it was). Sure I can go to a private server but does this HELP SE or FFXI? Not in the slightest but opening a classic server, giving those who left a choice of playstyle (and more subs)... that would help FFXI and SE. If a classic server with extra subs can help keep the normal servers up in running with sub money... wouldn't that be a win for both sides?

[Prrsha]

waiting[/I] for a group when you should've tried making one yourself. As someone that took only melee jobs up to 75, the secret was asking everyone in your level range, even if their flag wasn't up. I'd start by asking mages, and if I got those, I'd start recruiting other melee jobs. Worked most of the time.

I agree. I leveled BST from 20-40 JUST in parties. How do most people ask me? Like you said above... I formed parties. Despite the stigma and misconception at the time that jug pets ate people's exp in parties, I was able to form parties in EVERY single time 30 mins or less... and 30 mins was the WORST case scenario.

If anything it was lack of a good interface to find parties... that was the problem. If your first name of your character was a Z instead of an A... your experience of finding a party with just a exp flag could have been a problem due to the nature of /sea all and what time (esp if it was peak) you were playing.

[Alhanelem]

They appear to conflict to me.

Well, you need to have your vision checked, then.

They describe two events that can occur. One or the other, but not both. Neither of which I'd particularly like to see. There is no conflict here.

The second flaw to this idea is that the exp rate per mob you kill is 500% what is WAS in the old days. We'd still have problems of people zooming to lvl 75 in no time (which gets pointless quick). If you happen to be a person who liked the old style of leveling, you'd reach cap too quick to really enjoy each zone.

I don't know about you, but I never particularly required several hours to "enjoy each zone." The real enjoyment out of the overly slow leveling of the earlier days was the social experiences that were forged while doing so. Without that, I would have wanted it to be a LOT faster, even back then. There's also the fact that pretty much anyone playing this game that long is out of school and probably has a job. Slowing XP back down, whether it's on a classic server or rolling back all those changes, really wouldn't solve any problems.
The main audience for this game simply can't devote the same amount of time that they used to be able to. This is essentially the primary reason why leveling gets accelerated over a long period of time in MMOs. Even now we have a really long grind in Job Points. I've not one person asking for them to make them take longer, and lots of people wishing they'd speed it up (which they have). It takes 550 job points for each job to max out job points. If you're played every job to 99, that's 12100 job points total. Plenty of grinding for anyone who really loves it.

I agree. I leveled BST from 20-40 JUST in parties. How do most people ask me? Like you said above... I formed parties. Despite the stigma and misconception at the time that jug pets ate people's exp in parties, I was able to form parties in EVERY single time 30 mins or less... and 30 mins was the WORST case scenario.

You make it sound easier than it was. I played PUP and SMN, whether or not I formed the party, 30 mins was a FAST party setup in the old days. Usually it was at least an hour. The stigma associated with the jobs at the time was too strong and few were willing to play with them. =\

[Bluestar2kx]

Some people like myself would not like to break piracy rules. My wife wants to go to a private server after the trial is over. I cannot keep her from doing so as she can do as she wishes. It just saddens me that in order to join her (or many of my friends) I would have to take money away from SE and give it as a donation to keep said private servers running.

It's just my personal opinion on the matter but as time goes on and I drift away from FFXI as it is now, my options grow few.

The reason why I post this and come down hard on SE at times is that I love the company and wish it success but with every patch since WoTG they have done nothing but lose subs (many of which were my friends who liked the game how it was). Sure I can go to a private server but does this HELP SE or FFXI? Not in the slightest but opening a classic server, giving those who left a choice of playstyle (and more subs)... that would help FFXI and SE. If a classic server with extra subs can help keep the normal servers up in running with sub money... wouldn't that be a win for both sides?

Why does your wife want to goto a private server?
That seems rather odd, unless she played in 2003 or 4 and didn't like it, but somehow wants that over this?? I don't get it.

I pulled my partner in 2 years ago and she adores FFXI. Granted, she doesn't get to play it much more then me these days. As I point out below, times change for many.

I think the problem is, we want to stay with FFXI, but can't find reason to, so we make ourselves try to find one, if FFXI doesn't do it for you, then finding ways to make yourself play is not going to help you love the game, it's going to push you further from it no?

Personally, I think SE has done pretty well with FFXI overall. We got a few hard spots, and I completely dislike aby, I don't see a issue with adoulin, though i think it would have been easier to just increase the level requirement rather then a gear level thing. But I can see why they did it that way. And honestly, I think that reason partly stems from players demands in this thread: If you have to level to 119, your a goddess in everything non-adoulin. If you have to level to 99 and wear 119 gear, godhood is optional in everything. (obviously except adoulin stuff, but I think you get my point)

Everyone saying a classic server might get sub money for FFXI.
Yes it might. But it would have to be A LOT of money to get a full team on each server type to keep things going smoothly (assuming SE could keep developing for it) and there's no money for that. I guess the only option to keep that from being an issue would be a frozen in time server from the get go (rather then one that freezes later as I say below) but how long will that keep those players?

And the question becomes then: Where in time do we freeze FFXI?
At launch? 75 update? Chains? When they added dynamis? Sky? I've not read every page here, And not many have said much specifically in others other then pre-aby, but what is the consensus for when this server should occur in the update history? Can the players who want this even get a consensus on this? How much of the lore of Vana'diel are you willing to give up to be perpetually stuck at 75? (or 70 if you go back to early)

EQ's classic is based off launch year.
For FFXI that would cut out the lv 75 update and everything that came with it and after it. Including sky and dynamis. (let's not even get into the JP launch day)
My theory is this server would be frozen wherever the date is picked, and it will never leave there. If true, could you sacrifice those things?

They appear to conflict to me.

Perception is an odd thing sometimes isn't it?

None of his statements conflicted each other, they each occupy one side of the fence.
Either. Or. Based off the information available at this time, those are the only realistic outcomes.

FFXI has a small development team going atm, if you have to create an entirely new server, possibly going back through decades of updates to freeze the data at a specific point in time that players want, this is going to take a lot of time, a lot of people, and it's going to cut into the main servers activities which is not favourable to the majority who don't want to be on this time aged server, and that will cause more problems. On top of the fact that come november, this server would be frozen in time as FFXI dev kits go offline forever, and nothing frozen in time, lasts forever, it will get boring for people if SE was even able to make it.

On the other end, lets say it is popular at launch, and more people move to it, what's going to happen to the main servers?

Exactly what is happening now that everyone has been complaining about for years now: Lack of population! This server would only amplify existing problems on top of the update issues, oh sure, that server "might" get enough people to make it a none issue, but the question still remains: How long will it last? And what will happen to those on the main servers? Is this just a **** them kind of thing? they should come to us?

Given I don't think most people here remember how hellish FFXI was in it's first few years, and most veterans who remember that game, I doubt have a 1/10th of the playtime they did back then. I certainly don't, and I didn't mind the grind or difficulty, even though I was a taru at the time who was woefully misunderstood to be weak and useless as melee. But I'm not 19 at moms house anymore. I have kids to take care of, a house to tend to, my actual time actually playing ffxi vs sitting there afk is a few hours per day, not whole days at a time. Most of the FFXI population of veterans who play or not, are likely much the same way.

Sure, the memories are some of the best things I have from those days. I made wonderful friends, helped pave the way for taru melees by embarrassing elvaans, and spent enough time in the chair to kill my back for over half a decade to come. But those days are gone, as are the playstyles those days favoured, finding a group like that won't be nearly as great as it was then.

As a player who still plays ages old games, probably titles older then a 1/3rd of FFXIV's current playerbase, going back isn't as great as what once was that first time. It never can be.

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of a classic server, but what would exactly be the point? What's keeping people from playing the way that they choose to play? Sure, exp was buffed slightly, zones and some bc fight lvl caps were removed, stats were slightly altered, a few high lvl mobs were added to accommodate post lvl 75 parties, and jobs were either enhanced or nerfed, oh and the auction house is pretty much mostly dead, but in the end no one was forced to do anything.

So again I ask what would be the point of a classic server?

The point people are arguing over a classic server is authenticity.

They don't want to deal with the exp increases, the exp requirement decrease, the death toss decrease, damage changes, etc... etc... etc... that have all changed dramatically in the last decade. Things that can't be replicated to a reasonable degree acceptable to these players.

I guess the equivalent that popped into my head (despite the fact I know nothing about cars) is it's like putting the outer shell of a ferrari over a honda civic.
You get the look on the outside, but you get nothing else genuine, it's still the same thing it was when you sit down.

I guess that's how they feel.
But the odds of this happening is remote.
As of yet, there's not enough support, and SE is cutting development that requires the dev kits in november, and this would require those kits. If SE wasn't this might stand a better chance, slightly above remote, but as things stand now, I just don't see it happening to be anything to worry about.

If people want to "relive the glory days" they'll have to make a new character, and kill themselves every other mob to balance exp incomes and account for the old days grinding pattern. But they would have to make their own gear, the AH carries very little for pre-75 gear, so least that would be genuine.

[bungiefanNA]

The EXP rate is only 200% of what it was at launch (Even Match = 100 EXP solo, now it is 200 EXP solo), if you use no EXP boosting items that have come out. You can hit about 750% of original EXP rate if you use all the boosts. You can choose to still level slowly by not using rings, Records of Eminence, Trust, or Fields/Grounds of Valor, however, the economy for low level equipments and items is pretty much non-existant, so you won't have much gil without getting it from Records of Eminence or Valor books. Nothing is stopping you from ignoring the new systems and playing the classic way, but the player base overall doesn't resist the temptation to play using the systems that have been provided, and groups that try to play classic eventually fall apart as individual members start using the QoL options and speed ahead of the group. Ways to make money and do some content have also changed, as classic Dynamis no longer exists, so you definitely cannot play that if that was your thing.

Level Sync was an early method to address this disparity of levels between friends, but is not really needed much anymore since Trust came out on top of all the other changes.

I can't imagine very many current players would ditch the QoL changes to go to a server that has them disabled, given how few resist using the systems. That means it would have to bring back old players, which means you would have to find them to target them with advertisements, and you'd have to get through their perception that they don't like the way the game has been lately, if that is why they left.

It's hard to argue for the dev team to spend any of their limited time trying to create a server with a different environment, when they could improve the game for the remaining players, rather than try for the possibility of bringing back old players, and they have even stated their priorities now aren't growing the game population, but for cutting expenses of operating the game. That's the argument against a classic server.

Also, as has been said, where would players draw the line. Most old vets I know that quit can't be bothered to care if they were asked, saying they'd have to be paid to reinstall the game. JP launch in 2002, things were broken. Weaponskills didn't exist the first month, neither did NMs or the Auction House. The nature of MMORPGs is that they constantly change. Trying to lock them in place is against the whole idea of paying for a game like this, as you are paying for the experience to always be different. If you do a progression server, where do you start? The game wasn't even in English for the first 18 months. How fast do you go through content updates? Are players going to jump ship again when you reach certain updates? How are you going to keep the game interesting if you stop updates on a server? Does the code even exist in backups to revert back to such a state? Will it require a different version of the client to connect to such a server? If it does, what will it break if you have a friends list with people on the standard servers?

Are all of these dependencies and considerations worth the risk of investment, or letting someone else manage the IP and possibly damage its value?

[Prrsha]

Why does your wife want to goto a private server?
That seems rather odd, unless she played in 2003 or 4 and didn't like it, but somehow wants that over this?? I don't get it.

I pulled my partner in 2 years ago and she adores FFXI. Granted, she doesn't get to play it much more then me these days. As I point out below, times change for many.

She shares the same viewpoint as me. We even met for the 1st time in game so FFXI does have a lot of meaning to us. The only view point we don't really share is about piracy.

As for when I started... I started as an importer several months after the game came out. I beta tested on the Cactaur server, then moved to Ragnarok when the game went NA retail for the PC for 3 months. After hearing that ClanBob was on the Phoenix server, I moved to that one. My IRL friend did the same. He no longer plays because he as well shares the same opinions about the changes to the game. I played FFXI actively until around Abyssea where I kept my account active but did only casual things due do some IRL health issues which bogged me down for 2 years (however I still logged in often to try new content)... then after that I was active again... I made a new account from a mule and leveled it for the heck of it... Got quickly to 99 in just about all jobs... did abbysea and am currently doing the new content. I only do it for the sake of trying it, as the new end game stuff gets old for me quick... it's just not my playstyle now. Prrsha I keep around as I formed MithraPride with her on Phoenix. I find me logging on to her to get in touch with old friends that happen to check POL messages. I mostly just hang around old zones with her and fish... enjoy the scenery and such. My other character I do newer content with. Prrsha has no jobs above level 75. I wanted to keep her that way to still play old zones how they were... but I cannot play CoP "classic" with her anymore as many zones are above her current level if I wish to relive them with others the classic way... I'd have to make a new character, which costs money and paying for my wife's account and my own is enough as it is. I still plan to play FFXI at least until the new content is over. After that, I don't know what I will do. If they keep the current account prices as they are, it seems like too much money to justify playing a game with no new content (and I miss many of my friends and don't like the current gameplay style of soloing old content). My wife may convince me in the future to join a private server but as for now, no. My friends keep tugging at me however, so they may win out in the end. I have yet to take a good look at Elder Scrolls online... I helped beta many Bethsoft games so I may check it out and it may be my new home... who knows...

As for my wife she started playing FFXI around 2006. She met me on FFXI in 2007. She played until abby then leveled up to around 80, then quit the game. She watches me play and she came back for the free log-in campaign. She plans to quit after it is over and join a private server because she does not like what the game has become and sees nothing wrong with playing on a private server.

[Prrsha]

I can't imagine very many current players would ditch the QoL changes to go to a server that has them disabled, given how few resist using the systems. That means it would have to bring back old players, which means you would have to find them to target them with advertisements, and you'd have to get through their perception that they don't like the way the game has been lately, if that is why they left.

Imagine it. There is a vast number of players who think the game way who left FFXI. Since I keep in touch through various means with many of them, I know many of their opinions. A quick look at many forums unrelated to FFXI (or even a private one) and you will see many like minded individuals. Just because they no longer are active doesn't mean they are unwilling to return to the game they loved if they had an option of a classic server. They would gladly give up the QoL (as they have played in the past without it), so that is not really an issue to them. What drew them to the game was oddly enough the old style level up "grind" as many of you call it. To one person it is a "grind"... to another it is a long fun journey that they can no longer relive due to the changes that the game underwent (not to mention the broken economy that speed leveling created... and removal of the 75 cap, lifting of CoP caps...) brought that around as well.

This matter would come to a complete and simple conclusion if SE took one simple act:

Send an e-mail to old retired players with a poll for a classic server. It would cost them NEXT to NOTHING. They would know in a short time if there is an interest in such a server (it has worked in many other MMORPGs) as the OP points out so why not here?

SE would know the risk/reward scenario of such an endeavor and everyone could quickly shut up about the matter on both sides. SE could make the call and poof... conclusion to this thread.

All I am asking for all at the very least, is a plea for SE to poll their retired players.

Simple as that... and that is how simple this thread needs to be. End of my comments on this subject (as just about all I can discuss on the subject has been run over with a fine tooth comb). If anyone wants to address my comments or debate them, I will be happy to discuss however, but please read over my previous comments so I don't have to repeat myself if a comment is directed at me. Thank you. :3

[bungiefanNA]

With how many years it has been, how many of those old players still have the same email account? How many would notice if it got stuck in their spam filter? SE is horrible at advertising their online games outside Japan.

[bazookatooth]

As for playing FFXI level synched currently to relive old days... to all whom have said that... THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE

Why you ask? The main part is that many characters now DO NOT have any low level jobs to even start a level synch party to begin with. You'd first need a change to the existing code allowing players to "Self level cap" themselves to a certain level.

Two things:

A) That sounds exactly like old ffxi. No one with the jobs you need to form a party. You're already living the dream. You just don't know it.

B) If they made a classic server, you would have to start a new character anyways. So actually, everyone would have all low level jobs. Rolling back all your gear etc. would be a ridiculous request. They MIGHT have the old patch data still, but I guarantee they don't have your old player data.

Knowing that, why don't all you guys just start a new character now and save the trouble?