Classic server, what's the argument against it now?

[PlumbGame]

Pong consoles and NES games had a ton of people playing them in the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean either would be popular today.

Terrible analogy.

So much misinformation in this thread it's mind boggling.

[Alhanelem]

Also your argument that a classic server will "drain" players from regular servers is flawed.

So you're saying that there are zero current players that would be interested in this? Like... the people posting in this thread right now? My argument is not flawed because there are indeed at least a few people who would leave for a classic server. I sure at least hope the OP is one of them since he's leading the push for it at the moment...

SE is never going to make a classic server. They're not even able to continue updates for the main game, there's no way they will expend any resources on that. This discussion is entirely hypothetical. And private servers will never be "legal" because of copyright.
I'm not sure what you mean by "when the phone OS goes live"... SE isn't making a phone OS. They're contracting with Nexon to produce a mobile remake of the game, which, by the way, is probably the closest thing you will get to a classic server.

There's really nothing wrong with you leaving though. You make it sound like a threat, but SE most likely entirely expects this to happen. Heck, when they first made the game, they didn't think it would run for half as long as it did. I will probably leave at that time as well, but it will be on good terms and satisfied that I had a great run.

Uh, I have to point out that just because the population was higher back then doesn't mean the game was better.

I've said that numerous times in this thread, but he just doesn't seem to understand that people leave the game for a lot of reasons. A perception that the quality of the game has decreased is just one of them.

[PlumbGame]

More likes for OP than anyone else in this thread. If the forums was a base line, there would be a majority view for it.

Alha brings up statistics and doesnt even know how they work, because if you were to use the people who play on the private servers in a statistical view, it would represent a majority population that would play on the classic server. Also, many things on the private servers work fine, I played on them 2 years ago roughly, when a lot was broken, and much more was working then than one of the people who recently posted said.

Every game that has ever done something similar has had more success with it than its normal servers.

Keep being in denial all you want, but these are facts.

Also, more people enjoyed the game in the 75 era than not, that is an absolute fact. None of you have any data to support anything you say like its some kind of normal for games to decline whether people enjoy them or not (personally, I don't stop playing games I supposedly enjoy, unless its stuff like I feel the game went downhill). The only data we do have is that the population in fact was larger during those eras, and don't act like you have never heard people say they miss the 75 days or wish it was still that era. I'm in a freaking kongregate chat room right now when people who bring it up all the time, and I have no idea who these people even are.

If we also use the above info, every game that releases said servers, have not only shown a success more than their current servers, but have hit population sizes vastly larger than any of those servers hit during those eras.

Let us not discredit the validity and possibility of the success of one of these servers because you guys are haywire on arguing about the lively hood of the current game that the developers have already implied is done after November.

Also note that just because more people enjoyed that era, doesn't mean it will automatically be successful, but for the love, people stop stating excuses for that era, because its a fact, and the numbers don't lie. Just like most the people in WoW enjoyed WotLK etc... There is certain eras in ALL MMORPGS that more people enjoyed, deal with it.

[detlef]

I just want to address a couple of points here.

More likes for OP than anyone else in this thread. If the forums was a base line, there would be a majority view for it.

Is 6 Likes really enough to allow us to draw any sort of conclusion?

Also, more people enjoyed the game in the 75 era than not, that is an absolute fact. None of you have any data to support anything you say like its some kind of normal for games to decline whether people enjoy them or not (personally, I don't stop playing games I supposedly enjoy, unless its stuff like I feel the game went downhill). The only data we do have is that the population in fact was larger during those eras, and don't act like you have never heard people say they miss the 75 days or wish it was still that era. I'm in a freaking kongregate chat room right now when people who bring it up all the time, and I have no idea who these people even are.

I'm not sure how you can say more people enjoyed the 75 era than not, what does that mean? Or did you mean more players enjoyed that era than now?

Either way, I don't think you can state that as a fact. Sure, the game population was higher back then, I think we can agree on that. But the playerbase was very different back then as was the gaming environment. I suppose you can submit your guess that what worked then would work now. But everything is so vastly different now that it's really no more than a guess and certainly not absolute as you went on to state later.

I think such a server would require much more effort to construct than we think and would not be able to sustain any sort of player base or any kind of stable economy. I think the same problems that plagued the game in those days would persist and be exacerbated by a low population. Of course, that's just opinion but it's based on real experience and things that really happened to a lot of people.

[PlumbGame]

I just want to address a couple of points here.

Is 6 Likes really enough to allow us to draw any sort of conclusion?

I'm not sure how you can say more people enjoyed the 75 era than not, what does that mean? Or did you mean more players enjoyed that era than now?

Either way, I don't think you can state that as a fact. Sure, the game population was higher back then, I think we can agree on that. But the playerbase was very different back then as was the gaming environment. I suppose you can submit your guess that what worked then would work now. But everything is so vastly different now that it's really no more than a guess and certainly not absolute as you went on to state later.

I think such a server would require much more effort to construct than we think and would not be able to sustain any sort of player base or any kind of stable economy. I think the same problems that plagued the game in those days would persist and be exacerbated by a low population. Of course, that's just opinion but it's based on real experience and things that really happened to a lot of people.

The point of the first comment was that people claim that there is no demand for it, and they try using fallacys to determine that it would be a waste of time with no way to support their opinion. The demand is obviously there we can conclude by A. The thread existing in the first place and B. The fact that more people who view this forums, at least this thread, agree with the OP than not.

The second point is a fact. How can you argue otherwise. If people enjoyed the game still, they would be playing here. How do we think WoW went from 6.1mil subs to 10mil+ at their expansion launch? It's not like the game has been forgotten and ffxi is just a spec of dust in the wind. There has been plenty of opportunity to bring back a considerable amount of audience since the decline of the game, but it hasn't worked. There is a many MANY different aspects of the game not appealing to many people who played in the 75 days.

I've glimpsed a lot of replies here, so I don't know if anyone stated is specifically, but I don't think anyone is saying that server wouldn't require effort. That's one reason earlier I pointed out that it's obviously if SE does so, that being said, if they do choose to do so, I feel absolutely positively that it would be more successful than the current servers. This is ignoring maybe the appeal to the JP side also. SE also being the king of remakes on their games, I hope this would follow. Maybe though their mobile version is suppose to be their "classic" remake.

[machini]

So the "classic server" as mentioned in the original thread for EQ wasn't actually created by the game's developers?

That is correct. The EQ Emulator project is a private, open source project that emulates an EverQuest server. Sony Online tried to shut it down a couple of times, until they finally had to accept the fact that it is not illegal in the United States to reverse engineer a piece of software. You can only copyright source code, binaries from the code, and game assets (art, music). The EQ Emulator, being open source, plainly does not incorporate any proprietary source code, and it uses none of the game assets. All you need is a copy of a version of EverQuest that the server is compatible with. That's where the issue comes in -- the only way to obtain such a thing, last time i checked, was via a physical copy of the EverQuest Titanium boxed set. The server does not incorporate, use, or redistribute any actual anything from the client, and contains no actual official source code. It just took years for that to get established.

And yes, the Project 1999 server is a fork of the main EQ Emulator branch, which does not share its source code alterations or its database that it uses to emulate a "classic" server. The reason, of course, is if they did, I'd set up my own and six box (they refuse to allow boxing on their server, and I have no interest in soloing as Druid or Necromancer). It was entirely unaffiliated with EverQuest, Sony Online Entertainment, or any other representative or agents responsible or in charge of EverQuest. They now have official recognition, though.

[Alhanelem]

I just want to address a couple of points here.

Is 6 Likes really enough to allow us to draw any sort of conclusion?

I'm not sure how you can say more people enjoyed the 75 era than not, what does that mean? Or did you mean more players enjoyed that era than now?

Either way, I don't think you can state that as a fact. Sure, the game population was higher back then, I think we can agree on that. But the playerbase was very different back then as was the gaming environment. I suppose you can submit your guess that what worked then would work now. But everything is so vastly different now that it's really no more than a guess and certainly not absolute as you went on to state later.

I think such a server would require much more effort to construct than we think and would not be able to sustain any sort of player base or any kind of stable economy. I think the same problems that plagued the game in those days would persist and be exacerbated by a low population. Of course, that's just opinion but it's based on real experience and things that really happened to a lot of people.

This is just another case of people drawing false conclusions / interpreting data incorrectly. 6 likes on a forum, therefore everyone must like it. Less people online now, therefore the game was higher quality back then. if 3 other studios can do a classic server (at least one of which was not actually made by the studio), then it will work for SE too. Too much conclusion drawing with not enough data.

[machini]

Explain how the private servers exist then in a retro state... even with no FoV or GoV books? Eh?

Also the most popular retro server has 100 members ONLINE. Those are not subs... subs are higher. I was low balling it at 300.

You seem to know nothing about them or have never spoken to a person who has been on one of late. I'd invite you to my facebook ring but you'd just troll.

I have never used a private server but once SE tosses FFXI down the gutter and shuts down theirs... I may just join one to have fun with my old friends. Call me old fashioned but I still abide by the ToS and never have even used a Windower back in the day lol, so joining one atm seems wrong. I wish SE gave me the option of such a server however. If they did, I'd probably stay around after they stopped content.

After the phone OS goes live, I plan to quit FFXI and not return until a classic or private servers are legal. Prrsha RIP 2004-2012. I must have given SE about $1,000 dollars over the years between my wife and I.

You need to stop. You obviously have no first-hand experience with the private servers you're talking about. They are incomplete, do not have proper loot or spawn tables, half the JAs do absolutely nothing, and a great deal of other stuff is wrong with them. They are not anything approaching playable. They also do not incorporate any of the live server source code.

[Hellkat]

Is 6 Likes really enough to allow us to draw any sort of conclusion?

Make that 7 likes.

I just returned to the free trial of FFXI. I have been playing for around 6 years and quit shortly after all of the abyssea non-sense. I'm returning to see what changes were made to the game. I wanted to see if they fixed the mess they had done. I am saddened to see that this was not the case. After my trial is over I will mostly probably join a private server with level 75s then deal with the game in the mess it is in now. Most of my friends have that I have made have done the same. My better half says I should stay here because it is piracy to go to a private server.

Let me tell you, what SE did to FFXI is piracy in a monetary sense. All these years they took my money, only to trash the game now with silver spoon giveaways to any challenge the game had. I miss my old Vanadiel. Since SE gives me no other option to stay with a classic server, I will be leaving after the trial end. Most of my friends came during the trial too to play. They didn't like it now as well and said they would be leaving too. I have seen this thread and have been speaking with my LS mates. They all want to go to the private server until things get better as well. As strange as it might be to you, we all share the same mindset.

I loved FFXI but this game is not the same game it was to me now. It has changed too much and in the wrong ways.

[detlef]

The point of the first comment was that people claim that there is no demand for it, and they try using fallacys to determine that it would be a waste of time with no way to support their opinion. The demand is obviously there we can conclude by A. The thread existing in the first place and B. The fact that more people who view this forums, at least this thread, agree with the OP than not.

I tend to think that Likes are a bit biased in that people will only bother to click it if it’s something they feel very strongly about or it’s a very well-written post. Since there’s no Dislike button, you can’t really draw any conclusion other than 6 people agreed enough to click Like.

The second point is a fact. How can you argue otherwise. If people enjoyed the game still, they would be playing here. How do we think WoW went from 6.1mil subs to 10mil+ at their expansion launch? It's not like the game has been forgotten and ffxi is just a spec of dust in the wind. There has been plenty of opportunity to bring back a considerable amount of audience since the decline of the game, but it hasn't worked. There is a many MANY different aspects of the game not appealing to many people who played in the 75 days.

There are myriad reasons why people who played then are not playing now. Maybe more time is required to focus on work or studies. Maybe they started a relationship or a family. Maybe the cost of the game became an issue. Maybe they found a pastime they enjoyed even more than FFXI. Maybe they identified the game as an addition and quit. And maybe, as you have indicated, they quite because the game wasn’t proceeding in the direction they wanted. The game is very different now.

But then, so are the people playing the game. The player base was very much comprised of 18-25 year old players 10 years ago. Too many people are looking at just the game then and now and not looking at the players who played the game then and now. That’s why I say that if you brought back 2005-2008 FFXI to 2015, there is a good chance that it would just fall flat on its face.

I've glimpsed a lot of replies here, so I don't know if anyone stated is specifically, but I don't think anyone is saying that server wouldn't require effort. That's one reason earlier I pointed out that it's obviously if SE does so, that being said, if they do choose to do so, I feel absolutely positively that it would be more successful than the current servers. This is ignoring maybe the appeal to the JP side also. SE also being the king of remakes on their games, I hope this would follow. Maybe though their mobile version is suppose to be their "classic" remake.

Well let’s just say that some people think that the process would be very easy to do. I think we both understand that it wouldn’t be a trivial thing for SE to do.