Classic server, what's the argument against it now?

[Prrsha]

Saying that they have no backup of old data is a lie. How do you explain the private servers that have 300 population that only support content up to CoP? These servers have more players on them I am told then the current average paid server, so the desire is there. The only advertisement they have is word of mouth. While I have never tried a retro private server (or any private server as they are a form of piracy) so many of my old LS friends have.

Some private servers have full content some have retro and from the numbers... the retro servers have more players hands down. I browsed their forums to confirm the data and spoke to many of my friends who fiddle around on both kinds of servers.

Also 3 of my 100+ facebook friendlist still play FFXI paid. About 50 quit solid. 12 of them are in FFXIV. The rest? You guessed it... all but 6 of them play on a retro private server. The 6 in question play on a full content private server.

We all know FFXI lost the largest number of players once the level cap from CoP was removed and the lvl 75 cap. Sure you had a flood of new people resubbing to see what it is like to be level 99... but in the end, it no longer held their interest. Why? A post I made on ZAM sums it up:

"Most, if not all of Mithra Pride and Emerald Arcanum on Phoenix left once the level cap was raised and level caps were removed from CoP. Only 3 members still play FFXI on the retail server. The rest have either tried 14 and stayed there for a small time or have moved to a 11 private server.

The community is the core of a MMO and what makes it special. When a game tends to shift to more of a single player solo mind set, the community suffers a bit I have found. I am no stranger to MMOs and gave been GMs in 2 of them (Allegiance and Jumpgate). Jumpgate is a good example of this scenario. The game became more single player friendly, so players didn't need each other to accomplish many goals they had to before. While many rejoiced for a time, people started leaving the more they felt less needed. We as staff had to reverse that trend and went back to the core principles of the game. We brainstormed for months giving feedback to the developers and after a while came to a consensus on what needed to be done. After several patches that undid many of the changes that were done (and a massive nerf as well), yes, many players left, but lo and behold after 6 months we had an upturn of 300% subscription rate (mostly from vets) and the game was saved from bankruptcy. It gave the game another 2 strong years before the company pulled the plug however to make a sequel and work on another MMO game (which flopped).

Mithra Pride and Emerald Arcanum were always mid level linkshells that took in new players as soon as they hopped into vanadiel. The loyalty to the LS was strong and many of us still talk via facebook. The joy in running a LS like that was to be a mentor to others and see them grow into vets who where very close friends. 3 members of my shell met in real life and married (including myself). The general consensus among them is that FFXI is now just an empty shell... however they have not abandoned it in their hearts even though they have quit. They wish to relive the game how it was when such ties were made, so many choose a private server to do so. One of the married couples are a member of a retro private server as I speak.

This phenomenon repeats itself over and over again it seems with veterans I know. For some reason FFXI doesn't seem like home anymore, nor do they feel 14 is a home as well. However they seem drawn to the retro private servers like a moth to a flame. They even rather remake a new character.

BTW the game allegiance is still alive despite its small initial run by Microsoft (about 2 years if memory serves me and was developed in 2000-2001) It is now run by a dedicated community (private server) and has evolved with every patch and kept up with graphics changes throughout the years. http://www.freeallegiance.org/

Maybe SE could learn something from this, but it is probably too late... "

Also this:

"I really think FFXI is going through an identity crisis. It's no longer holding up to its core model and is trying to evolve into something it was never envisioned to be in the first place... and can you blame it? Just about 100% of the creative staff that worked on the original game is gone from the company now.

I think they would have been better off if they have stuck with their "Everquest" model of the game instead of proclaiming they are trying to re-design it along the "WoW" model. If they wanted a "WoW" model, they could have (and have) used FFXIV.

When you redesign a game and start changing its core to meet with the current trends, you lose your nitche playerbase. What you have left now, is a game that is half EQ and half WoW. The parts don't fit well together, leaving a confused mess of outdated content that is no longer relevant because the core has shifted so much that only the new content is relevant anymore.

What do new players see when entering FFXI? They see a game that looks broken by zooming them to level 99 because the older content just doesn't fit anymore. The removal of level caps in storyline areas and no need for low level synthed gear leads to a rewardless crafting system and empty auction houses (and a broken non-existent) game economy."

[Alhanelem]

Saying that they have no backup of old data is a lie. How do you explain the private servers that have 300 population that only support content up to CoP?

Those servers don't even support that content. They are not really functional, please don't overstate how well they are. They're also purely English and that "300population" you're claiming is not going to be around the clock.

It's not a lie. The only private servers i've heard of were created back when those expansions were new and were not updated. If they vanished off the face of the earth and someone else created a private server, they would only have the current version of the client to work with and they'd only have access to the current servers to reverse engineer them. You can easily limit what content is available, but you can't turn back the clock on the core client code. It's still going to be the newest version whether you reverse engineer Zilart or everything up to now.

Unless you've been to SE HQ and have access to their repository, you can't tell me with a straight face that you know they keep every old version of the game data. If you went and told me someone at SE has a USB drive of FFXI 1.0 from 13 years ago both client and server in their back pocket, I'd say you're most likely wrong. It would take a team of engineers and it would take time to literally turn back the clock to X time in the past. And why do I say this? The game software has, most likely, undergone at least thousands and probably tens of thousands of builds. The amount of storage necessary to keep all those builds for 13+ years is incredibly huge; and while storage is cheaper than ever, the game was started 13 years ago and it's extremely unlikely they planned for this. At most, they probably keep 2-3 years worth of builds, because they might need them to revert a code change that caused a bug or similar.

[nekroturkey]

What do new players see when entering FFXI? They see a game that looks broken by zooming them to level 99 because the older content just doesn't fit anymore.

This was the exact impression I got when I returned to the game a few months ago. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the convenience and a lot of the QoL changes that have been made, but the game feels terribly disjointed, like a lot of the newer aspects just don't belong. There's a lot of redundant/irrelevant/abandoned content in the game now, and you can tell the game wasn't originally meant to be played this way because it feels so awkward and unpolished.

[Alhanelem]

What do new players see when entering FFXI? They see a game that looks broken by zooming them to level 99 because the older content just doesn't fit anymore.

The thing is, nobody wants to do the older content. It would be extremely difficult to get people to do that. People are motivated by reward, and old content doesn't offer them useful rewards. This is another thing that makes me question the viability of a classic server, because this problem would be back in full force and be off putting to new characters (not necessarily just new players). So what was SE supposed to do? They can either make old content easier to pass for new players, or they can lose those new players due to lack of people willing to help.

It's a problem even in a relatively young game like FFXIV, which could only really solve the problem by offering a "random duty" function, which automatically pairs people with others who need a particular thing done- But even with that feature, you have to wait a long time to find a group for early game dungeons and bosses, because few people are interested.

[Prrsha]

Also your argument that a classic server will "drain" players from regular servers is flawed. The people who LEFT FFXI due to the changes would fill the classic servers mostly. Take all of those players from 3 retro servers and you have 300 + 100 + 100 = 500 subs. That's just from unadvertised private "secret" servers. Imagine if SE sent every vet that left an email announcing the addition of a classic server? You'd get tons of players imho.

As to your argument that there are no private servers that have CoP content? That is also false. Many have content up to ToAU. You can fight there, visit all zones etc. Crafting works fine, the economy is good and guess what? When you make a character you start with a global LS that everyone talks in. THAT is how they organize things like NM hunts and such. The only thing that seems to be broken atm according to the forums is fishing... but they are working on that. At the moment they have a work around that you can catch any fish but never skill up.

[Prrsha]

Unless you've been to SE HQ and have access to their repository, you can't tell me with a straight face that you know they keep every old version of the game data. If you went and told me someone at SE has a USB drive of FFXI 1.0 from 13 years ago both client and server in their back pocket, I'd say you're most likely wrong. It would take a team of engineers and it would take time to literally turn back the clock to X time in the past. And why do I say this? The game software has, most likely, undergone at least thousands and probably tens of thousands of builds. The amount of storage necessary to keep all those builds for 13+ years is incredibly huge; and while storage is cheaper than ever, the game was started 13 years ago and it's extremely unlikely they planned for this. At most, they probably keep 2-3 years worth of builds, because they might need them to revert a code change that caused a bug or similar.

Explain how the private servers exist then in a retro state... even with no FoV or GoV books? Eh?

Also the most popular retro server has 100 members ONLINE. Those are not subs... subs are higher. I was low balling it at 300.

You seem to know nothing about them or have never spoken to a person who has been on one of late. I'd invite you to my facebook ring but you'd just troll.

I have never used a private server but once SE tosses FFXI down the gutter and shuts down theirs... I may just join one to have fun with my old friends. Call me old fashioned but I still abide by the ToS and never have even used a Windower back in the day lol, so joining one atm seems wrong. I wish SE gave me the option of such a server however. If they did, I'd probably stay around after they stopped content.

After the phone OS goes live, I plan to quit FFXI and not return until a classic or private servers are legal. Prrsha RIP 2004-2012. I must have given SE about $1,000 dollars over the years between my wife and I.

[detlef]

Historically speaking though, and as I've mentioned before, the game had more people playing during this game's golden era than it does now. A classic server has a lot of potential.

Uh, I have to point out that just because the population was higher back then doesn't mean the game was better.

At the time there were very few MMO options and this meant that FFXI's unforgiving gameplay was tolerated because there weren't many other MMO games that people could switch to. Also, I'd wager that FFXI represented the first MMO experience for I would guess the majority of its players. People put up with the hours of PT seeking, months of leveling, and hilariously punishing endgame because that's what MMOs were and that's all people knew. If you transplanted the 2004-2005 playerbase into 2015 and gave them the option of playing 2004-2005 FFXI or any other MMO, you'd be hard pressed to keep them playing FFXI.

Also, a lot of people who started back then were in high school or college and could afford to devote enough time to the game to make it worthwhile. Those same people are 10 years older now and have vastly different lifestyles. Sure in college you could play 80 hours a week and have a very fulfilling experience. You had 12 hours to play, seeking PT for 2 hours was nothing. Doing Dynamis for 3.5 hours was acceptable. Leveling a job to 75 at 4k XP per hour was manageable. Are you really the same person now? Is that something you still want from the game?

In my opinion, what people want is to be 20 years old playing 80 hours a week with other 20-year olds.

[Isal]

Uh, I have to point out that just because the population was higher back then doesn't mean the game was better. [...]

As logical as your post is, that exact sentiment has been pointed out multiple times in this very thread, and I can assure you that nekroturkey is not going to let go of his questionable "there were more playing back then" correlation.

Frankly, if the "demand" is truly there, then the people demanding it should do something about it. Start a petition or something. The people disagreeing with the OP of this thread are in no way holding back the possiblity of SE making one. You gotta make it happen, and this thread isn't going to cut it.

[Zarchery]

Historically speaking though, and as I've mentioned before, the game had more people playing during this game's golden era than it does now. A classic server has a lot of potential.

Pong consoles and NES games had a ton of people playing them in the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean either would be popular today.

[detlef]

Pong consoles and NES games had a ton of people playing them in the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean either would be popular today.

I played Pong for the first time the other day. I had real, genuine fun with it for a few minutes.