Classic server, what's the argument against it now?

[machini]

Has anybody actually played on a private server? I'm wondering what kind of populations there really are and if people can actually devote enough play time to allow for at least a semi-robust group experience. I'm picturing a server with a hundred people who play maybe 15 hours a week and are never online at the same time or wanting to do the same thing at the same time. Am I completely off base or is this accurate?

There are no playable ones. There are some that let you do things like log in, run around, equip items, but none of them actually function -- JAs don't work, monsters don't have AI, etc, etc.

FFXI had nowhere near EverQuest's popularity at either games' primes. The EQ Emulator project has been going almost since the game came out, and one of the EQ Private Servers (the "classic" server) is now becoming an officially sanctioned thing.

I think a huge problem is that people don't understand what a "classic" server is. A "classic" server would be using POL and FFXI from the time period in question. It would be using loottables, spawn tables, mob AI, spell effects, WSes, etc, etc, etc, from the time in question. That data no longer exists.

Many companies that make MMOs have huge issues (as do most other game companies, oddly enough) with keeping backups and older versions archived somewhere. Since the idea of "classic" servers didn't exist back when EQ, or FFXI, came out, that data was not saved. The only way to get older versions of the EQ Client (not even talking about legitimately, talking about at all) is via boxed copies of the game. Somewhere I have a copy of EQ Trilogy, which is a copy of the game client with the base game and the first two expansion. So great! I have the classic version of the game, client and all, back when you had a tiny little window and we were still using the Quake engine. Awesome. Now what?

Nothing, that's what.

The server binaries, the databases of game information, probably even the source code for the servers of that time, don't exist anymore. And the amount of time it would take to recreate that when a good deal of the internal mechanics were not recorded, or the records of how they function were deleted, would be insane.

I don't know that half the people in this thread who are clamoring for a "classic" server have any idea what sort of work is involved in such a thing. Right now Squeenix is saying they're discontinuing development because the money isn't there to support it. Do you really think a classic server would bring in the dosh to support the amount of time that would go in to outright recreating the server and client software of the time? Do you have any idea how much time it would take to recreate databases of loot and mobs of the time? No, you don't, otherwise you wouldn't be asserting this is a doable thing.

And that's not what you want, anyway. One month of 75-cap where it takes a year to level a job, and hours to find a party, with no RUN or GEO, without half of the JAs and spells you've become accustomed to, where people will take rotating shifts holding land kings, where there is no fast travel, no mog sack, no porter moogle, no satchel, etc, etc, etc, after one month of that you'd unsubscribe while wailing that that's not what you wanted or asked for.

I played EQ starting the day it came out and quit with Luclin. I fully understand the "desire" for a classic server. Those were some of the most fun times I've had in a video game -- almost all entirely due to the community -- but I would not want to return to them. I can take off the rose tinted glasses and accept that 4 hour corpse runs, being unable to get a party as a hybrid class, some classes being absolutely worthless to the point no one wants to party with them or play them, no proper raid mechanics, etc, etc, were really unfun, and that the only thing that made them tolerable were the community. Someone helping you with a corpse run, whether it was a free teleport (and SoW, maybe), or helping you physically locate your corpse, or helping you by dragging it or clearing mobs: that made it tolerable. Sitting around and shooting the breeze for four hours at a single camp killing the same 3 monsters over and over again: that made it tolerable. That sense of newness in every zone you visited, every level you gained, spell you learned, piece of gear you wrested from the cold, dead hands of its previous mob owner: that was tolerable; doing it with a great community, with friends, is what made it fun.

You're not going to have that community. I am not going to ditch literal years of work to go back to 75 cap, especially if we don't have ToAU and Wings. I am not going to go back to 75 cap if I can't get 75 cap versions of my mythic back. I'm not going to go back for a lot of reasons, and other than the listed above, they all sum up as "I'm not going to throw away years of work and start over from scratch."

I really, really sympathize with you. I really, truly do. But sometimes what we want is not what we need, nor is what we get what we wanted. It is impossible, for practical reasons, and monetary reasons, for you to get your wish. If you truly want that, go learn C++ and lua and contribute to a project that will give you what you want. SE is not going to do it for you.

[nekroturkey]

I am not going to ditch literal years of work to go back to 75 cap, especially if we don't have ToAU and Wings. I am not going to go back to 75 cap if I can't get 75 cap versions of my mythic back. I'm not going to go back for a lot of reasons, and other than the listed above, they all sum up as "I'm not going to throw away years of work and start over from scratch."

Okay... then don't? Are you under the assumption that we're asking for all of the servers to be rolled back? Because that's the impression you're giving. In fact, most of the anti-classic server people here are giving me that impression.

If you enjoy the way the game currently plays, then keep playing on the main servers. Let the people who want a classic server play on the classic server. Everybody's happy. It's really that simple, or would the simple existence of a classic server bother you?

Historically speaking though, and as I've mentioned before, the game had more people playing during this game's golden era than it does now. A classic server has a lot of potential.

[detlef]

Historically speaking though, and as I've mentioned before, the game had more people playing during this game's golden era than it does now. A classic server has a lot of potential.

Uh, I have to point out that just because the population was higher back then doesn't mean the game was better.

At the time there were very few MMO options and this meant that FFXI's unforgiving gameplay was tolerated because there weren't many other MMO games that people could switch to. Also, I'd wager that FFXI represented the first MMO experience for I would guess the majority of its players. People put up with the hours of PT seeking, months of leveling, and hilariously punishing endgame because that's what MMOs were and that's all people knew. If you transplanted the 2004-2005 playerbase into 2015 and gave them the option of playing 2004-2005 FFXI or any other MMO, you'd be hard pressed to keep them playing FFXI.

Also, a lot of people who started back then were in high school or college and could afford to devote enough time to the game to make it worthwhile. Those same people are 10 years older now and have vastly different lifestyles. Sure in college you could play 80 hours a week and have a very fulfilling experience. You had 12 hours to play, seeking PT for 2 hours was nothing. Doing Dynamis for 3.5 hours was acceptable. Leveling a job to 75 at 4k XP per hour was manageable. Are you really the same person now? Is that something you still want from the game?

In my opinion, what people want is to be 20 years old playing 80 hours a week with other 20-year olds.

[Isal]

Uh, I have to point out that just because the population was higher back then doesn't mean the game was better. [...]

As logical as your post is, that exact sentiment has been pointed out multiple times in this very thread, and I can assure you that nekroturkey is not going to let go of his questionable "there were more playing back then" correlation.

Frankly, if the "demand" is truly there, then the people demanding it should do something about it. Start a petition or something. The people disagreeing with the OP of this thread are in no way holding back the possiblity of SE making one. You gotta make it happen, and this thread isn't going to cut it.

[Zarchery]

Historically speaking though, and as I've mentioned before, the game had more people playing during this game's golden era than it does now. A classic server has a lot of potential.

Pong consoles and NES games had a ton of people playing them in the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean either would be popular today.

[detlef]

Pong consoles and NES games had a ton of people playing them in the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean either would be popular today.

I played Pong for the first time the other day. I had real, genuine fun with it for a few minutes.

[PlumbGame]

Pong consoles and NES games had a ton of people playing them in the 70s and 80s. That doesn't mean either would be popular today.

Terrible analogy.

So much misinformation in this thread it's mind boggling.