ATTN: Dev/Comm. Rep -Relic & Mythic Weapons Reborn {Yes, Please}- レリックとミシックの強化

[Rambus]

Well, I think that is cause JP in general are usually more productive where as the NA/English forums are typically more ridden with epeen/cynicism/proof or gtfo mentalities. BG, KI, Alla...just about anywhere you can go you'll run into the same trolling, the biggest difference is if the moderation team puts a stop to it or not before it goes too far. Not saying the mods of the forum here aren't doing their jobs, just that other places are a little more quick to stop something depending on how the topic is evolving than here.

Would be nice if we had the same exchange of information going on here also, but instead it is more a spitting match between Relic/emp/mythic owners or "out with the old, in with the new" comments. Factoring the emp weapon holders out (who don't have relic or mythic to compare/contrast the issues people see a conflict with) there is an obvious agreement that while SE has tried to keep the weapons worth the effort, they haven't quite met players expectations based on the amount of effort that had to be put into the weapons to get them to their current final state. Some aren't worth even macroing in or using over other options that take much less effort/time.

I've racked my brain trying to figure out how SE could enhance/rectify the issue without ruining the balance and currently I'm still not sure.

Thought of possibly increasing proc rate for 2.5-3x dmg (only equal to the potential of the ODD of Emp), or increase to FTP values (maybe both), but other than this I couldn't think of any way to make relics somewhat more worthy of use over emp without ruining balance.

Can't change the WS to have TP mods (outside of the current Aftermath effect and duration) without possibly making them too strong or having to remove another part of the weapon such as the additional effects (though I'm sure some wouldn't mind this, while others would).

Turning some of the WS that look like multi-hit (Mercy Stroke, Onslaught, etc) into true multihit would need an accompanying fTP nerf which in the end might not make the WS any better since they still don't have a TP mod (IE: Chance of Critical, Increase DMG, Ignore defense, etc).

Possibly fixing some of the odd Primary Stat mods might help, but that would conflict with the fact Emp weapons have odd mods that some jobs never used in the past also.

I'm not exactly certain on what the issue Mythic holders have since I never looked into it too far. I just know that people aren't happy with the minimal difference the 90 versions have over the 75 versions due to the effort it takes to get them to that point. The only real noticeable difference I've heard stated is just the increase base damage, but other than this the weapon was said to be "not worth the time or effort to upgrade to 90."

I do not know about you but new = better is not a vaild agurment for me.

A lot of mythics are subpar vs common weapons or emp weapons.

Do you really want to spend 120 M- 150 M +2 month wait for a weapon that is jsut a convert macro or ES macro?
Or improving a 2hr that is not great to begin with?
I really think NIN mythic should improve yonin and innin.

what does NIN mythic even do to mijin Gakure anymore? You get the no weak without it now

I think this is why they are changing dynamis to 1 once a day, due to relics getting matched, so it will just be easier to get them in due time.


Also....It seems the mods are having a fun time with bahamut lol.

making relics easier to get is not a fix though.. I do not mind them getting a bit easier to get but there still be some sort of a lot of effort things that people with more time can go after. Easy to see when people get board people quit.

[Kitkat]

Well, this also depends on how else they change dynamis. Currently on my server...only 2-3 LS even still do dynamis and maybe a couple lowman groups. Other than getting currency, a choice piece for certain jobs, or relic NM's hardly no one has any initiative to do it, so depending on what other changes they have aside from gaining experience..there may be a lower availability if it doesn't draw people back in. I say lower cause they are adjusting drop rate of currency since access restrictions are being made more lax.

The only way it will stay the same or increase overall in distribution is if SE does something else that makes people see it as worth while again since 95% of the gear is out done by Abyssea gear and most people are already capped on xp/merits as is, so adding the ability to get xp of the mobs doesn't really seem appealing to me.

[Rambus]

Well, this also depends on how else they change dynamis. Currently on my server...only 2-3 LS even still do dynamis and maybe a couple lowman groups. Other than getting currency, a choice piece for certain jobs, or relic NM's hardly no one has any initiative to do it, so depending on what other changes they have aside from gaining experience..there may be a lower availability if it doesn't draw people back in. I say lower cause they are adjusting drop rate of currency since access restrictions are being made more lax.

The only way it will stay the same or increase overall in distribution is if SE does something else that makes people see it as worth while again since 95% of the gear is out done by Abyssea gear and most people are already capped on xp/merits as is, so adding the ability to get xp of the mobs doesn't really seem appealing to me.

really? There is still a bunch on my server, once a guy was shouting to do bastok, saying he wanted to reserve one 100-byne. I told him that ant a really a good idea, that you have better returns doing a sandy. I told him that one 100 byne does not break even with glass. (trying to inform people something may not be a good idea and get head bit off -.-, was wondering if he really knew what people bought and sold currecy for)

he told me not to tell him how to play so w/e even if he did make a bit out with that 100 + singles still did not seem worth it. ( I do not see how a 100-200k gil for 4 hrs +stress trying to lead a pug dyna is worth it)

anyways my server has a lot of pug dyna for NA and JP players, once i even saw a shout inviting people that was on the 85-90 trial.

SE said they want you gain exp off these dyna mobs with the changes to dyna, so i really hope they do other things like make them higher level so you gain real exp off them and get other gear so people are not fighting over currency if they make it like WoE ( for the love of god i hope it is not like WoE)

I have no idea how restricted entry would work off KI though.

[Vortex]

what does NIN mythic even do to mijin Gakure anymore? You get the no weak without it now

You raise with full hp, instead of half, which is ok if you have it, but most certainly not worth the effort to get it.

making relics easier to get is not a fix though.. I do not mind them getting a bit easier to get but there still be some sort of a lot of effort things that people with more time can go after. Easy to see when people get board people quit.

.....what?

[Rambus]

It means making relics easier to get so it is ok to be weaker then emps is not a fix or a solution.

some people tried to say that in other places, I do not know if you where. my only point is this, I do not care if they are a bit easier to get after update, that is not an excuse to have emps outperform them.

You raise with full hp, instead of half, which is ok if you have it, but most certainly not worth the effort to get it.

well SE can start to fix that one by putting yonin and innin on it

[Unctgtg]

Lol at that Bahmanut guy, all his posts are being deleted.

[Mordanthos]

IDK why people say EMPS are soooo easy to obtain. I mean, i am so unmotivated to get the Almace for my Paladin because of all the steps it takes to get it. Its horrible. Just the first Trial is kill a lvl 15 NM 3 times. Ok sounds easy. Except its on a 1 hour respawn timer, and spawns in 2 places, so already with the luckiest of all lucky people, the best amount of time to complete this trial is 3 hours, assuming 1, there arent other people doing it, and 2, you get em every hour. After that junk is over, the next NM is like...4-5 times or something i think. So on top of the 3 hours you already spent being bored out of your mind, your about to add another 4-5 hours onto that. And your only at trial 2 of like, 12-15 of these things. After you SOMEHOW manage to get through all these NM killing garbage trials (which i just cant see how anyone can even withstand the torture of these stupid NM trials) you get to the obtain 25/50/75 of these items from a NM in Abyssea. Awesome, except, they drop like 1-2 of the item, or maybe even 0, and to make things worse, if you got more people with you who need this stuff, well your just screwed, and its going to be a LOOONG TIME before u get 25, or 50, or 75 of these items. Finally..when you get to the last couple trials trading some of the kindred crests, high kindred crests, all that hard work is infinitely made 400 million times easier, which doesnt make sense to me why it curves from being so hard, to being so easy, but whatever.

The point is, the Steps to go through to get to a fully upgraded Empyreum weapon are just rediculous, and it has got to take weeks to just even get through 1 or 2 of these NM trials sometimes, not to mention you have like 12 or more of these NM trials that its just near IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY THAT EMPYREUM WEAPONS ARE EASY TO GET. After looking at allllll the crap i have to do on the WIKI, i am just so unmotivated to dedicate that amount of time into getting that weapon.

Stop saying Empyreum is easy, from what i see, its looks fricken annoying and takes rediculous amounts of time and patience.

[Kaida]

IDK why people say EMPS are soooo easy to obtain. I mean, i am so unmotivated to get the Almace for my Paladin because of all the steps it takes to get it. Its horrible. Just the first Trial is kill a lvl 15 NM 3 times. Ok sounds easy. Except its on a 1 hour respawn timer, and spawns in 2 places, so already with the luckiest of all lucky people, the best amount of time to complete this trial is 3 hours, assuming 1, there arent other people doing it, and 2, you get em every hour. After that junk is over, the next NM is like...4-5 times or something i think. So on top of the 3 hours you already spent being bored out of your mind, your about to add another 4-5 hours onto that. And your only at trial 2 of like, 12-15 of these things. After you SOMEHOW manage to get through all these NM killing garbage trials (which i just cant see how anyone can even withstand the torture of these stupid NM trials) you get to the obtain 25/50/75 of these items from a NM in Abyssea. Awesome, except, they drop like 1-2 of the item, or maybe even 0, and to make things worse, if you got more people with you who need this stuff, well your just screwed, and its going to be a LOOONG TIME before u get 25, or 50, or 75 of these items. Finally..when you get to the last couple trials trading some of the kindred crests, high kindred crests, all that hard work is infinitely made 400 million times easier, which doesnt make sense to me why it curves from being so hard, to being so easy, but whatever.

The point is, the Steps to go through to get to a fully upgraded Empyreum weapon are just rediculous, and it has got to take weeks to just even get through 1 or 2 of these NM trials sometimes, not to mention you have like 12 or more of these NM trials that its just near IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY THAT EMPYREUM WEAPONS ARE EASY TO GET. After looking at allllll the crap i have to do on the WIKI, i am just so unmotivated to dedicate that amount of time into getting that weapon.

Stop saying Empyreum is easy, from what i see, its looks fricken annoying and takes rediculous amounts of time and patience.

I used to think this until I started working on my own weapon


getting the gems for my gun took 2 days. About 8-9 hours total really not that hard to get if you have 5-8 people some farming popsets while some kill the NM and no one is camping against you (oh and i lucked out and only got the single drop twice)

If it was not for the downtime I'm sure I would have the 85 stage by now.

True the NM path took a while but compared to a mythic, and relic an emp is a joke to get, but in its self is an accomplishment


As the post below me says

In short, there's no reason why an empyrean weapon holder should feel any less about they're accomplishment

PS also you may wanna look into the trails again. Kindred seals are not for the emp weapons, but for the walk of echos weapons with the weaponskills

[Auredant]

IDK why people say EMPS are soooo easy to obtain. I mean, i am so unmotivated to get the Almace for my Paladin because of all the steps it takes to get it. Its horrible. Just the first Trial is kill a lvl 15 NM 3 times. Ok sounds easy. Except its on a 1 hour respawn timer, and spawns in 2 places, so already with the luckiest of all lucky people, the best amount of time to complete this trial is 3 hours, assuming 1, there arent other people doing it, and 2, you get em every hour. After that junk is over, the next NM is like...4-5 times or something i think. So on top of the 3 hours you already spent being bored out of your mind, your about to add another 4-5 hours onto that. And your only at trial 2 of like, 12-15 of these things. After you SOMEHOW manage to get through all these NM killing garbage trials (which i just cant see how anyone can even withstand the torture of these stupid NM trials) you get to the obtain 25/50/75 of these items from a NM in Abyssea. Awesome, except, they drop like 1-2 of the item, or maybe even 0, and to make things worse, if you got more people with you who need this stuff, well your just screwed, and its going to be a LOOONG TIME before u get 25, or 50, or 75 of these items. Finally..when you get to the last couple trials trading some of the kindred crests, high kindred crests, all that hard work is infinitely made 400 million times easier, which doesnt make sense to me why it curves from being so hard, to being so easy, but whatever.

The point is, the Steps to go through to get to a fully upgraded Empyreum weapon are just rediculous, and it has got to take weeks to just even get through 1 or 2 of these NM trials sometimes, not to mention you have like 12 or more of these NM trials that its just near IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY THAT EMPYREUM WEAPONS ARE EASY TO GET. After looking at allllll the crap i have to do on the WIKI, i am just so unmotivated to dedicate that amount of time into getting that weapon.

Stop saying Empyreum is easy, from what i see, its looks fricken annoying and takes rediculous amounts of time and patience.

Yes and no. In comparison they are alot less time consuming than getting a relic. But people really exaggerate how easy it is. And they always use the easiest trials as an example. Especially Kannagi. "Just go solo ur Emp eapon in 3days to a week."Always exclude the prelimanary leg work of campin the easy nms. And soloing the vnms is great if ur a nin, maybe a few other jobs...but what if your a drg for instance and need shoggoth? And, this may be a news flash...but not every nin can solo equally. And I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people posting that they're soloable had help. And while I don't doubt that there have been people that completed it in a week, I wouldn't say that's the norm and I'm extremely skeptical that they soloed it in that time. Just the time u need to gather the Ki for all the kills u need could take a week, unless you live on this game and farm a massive amount of time beforehand (which, in itself, takes time). So, possible in a week for some of the trials. YES. But by that rational it's possible to get a relic in less than 2 weeks. In short, there's no reason why an empyrean weapon holder should feel any less about they're accomplishment. Don't let yourselves get brainwashed by the propaganda.

[Taint]

IDK why people say EMPS are soooo easy to obtain. I mean, i am so unmotivated to get the Almace for my Paladin because of all the steps it takes to get it. Its horrible. Just the first Trial is kill a lvl 15 NM 3 times. Ok sounds easy. Except its on a 1 hour respawn timer, and spawns in 2 places, so already with the luckiest of all lucky people, the best amount of time to complete this trial is 3 hours, assuming 1, there arent other people doing it, and 2, you get em every hour. After that junk is over, the next NM is like...4-5 times or something i think. So on top of the 3 hours you already spent being bored out of your mind, your about to add another 4-5 hours onto that. And your only at trial 2 of like, 12-15 of these things. After you SOMEHOW manage to get through all these NM killing garbage trials (which i just cant see how anyone can even withstand the torture of these stupid NM trials) you get to the obtain 25/50/75 of these items from a NM in Abyssea. Awesome, except, they drop like 1-2 of the item, or maybe even 0, and to make things worse, if you got more people with you who need this stuff, well your just screwed, and its going to be a LOOONG TIME before u get 25, or 50, or 75 of these items. Finally..when you get to the last couple trials trading some of the kindred crests, high kindred crests, all that hard work is infinitely made 400 million times easier, which doesnt make sense to me why it curves from being so hard, to being so easy, but whatever.

The point is, the Steps to go through to get to a fully upgraded Empyreum weapon are just rediculous, and it has got to take weeks to just even get through 1 or 2 of these NM trials sometimes, not to mention you have like 12 or more of these NM trials that its just near IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY THAT EMPYREUM WEAPONS ARE EASY TO GET. After looking at allllll the crap i have to do on the WIKI, i am just so unmotivated to dedicate that amount of time into getting that weapon.

Stop saying Empyreum is easy, from what i see, its looks fricken annoying and takes rediculous amounts of time and patience.

If that is really your thoughts on getting an Emp, then Relics would be nearly impossible.

My 90emp was knocked out in a just a few runs. Even the NM trials I teamed up with multiple others to speed them up. My Apoc was LS sponsored, 2 dynamis runs a week for a year, 1/3 on Attest and then 1/5 on Fragment (Feb2007 give me a break ) that was all with 25ish people helping me complete it.

My almost 2nd Relic the currency was purchased by me, took 3-4 months to round it all up. I started turning it in since my LS was going to spam Attest runs for me. 0/12 later my LS calls that off. I then try to merc it off various shells that were also doing Attest runs. 0/18ish later and other shells being capped I ended up selling all my currency. Emps don't have cock blocks or random drops.

I found this pic: