Do you think one day there will be a MMORPG where helping others....

[Afania]

It just seems like a lot of people join what's supposed to be a social game and then act completely anti-social. Maybe that's how they are in real life. Maybe in real life they've always been "the loser" and finally have a chance to reverse their role. I just have to wonder why, if dealing with people is such a pain, why even bother with a game that requires dealing with others? There are many games to play and many other activities to participate in that one can do without ever having to put up with "gimps" and "noobs." Why not do those instead?

Seems like you have strong hatred toward ppl that doesn't play with others lol. There are 0 evidence/scientific research to prove that players that are anti-social in game are "the loser" irl. If anything, I know plenty of players only play with close friend/mules/husband/wife has a proper job and family. The above opinion is just your imagination and personal hatred toward the others.

[Lithera]

Seems like you have strong hatred toward ppl that doesn't play with others lol. There are 0 evidence/scientific research to prove that players that are anti-social in game are "the loser" irl. If anything, I know plenty of players only play with close friend/mules/husband/wife has a proper job and family. The above opinion is just your imagination and personal hatred toward the others.

You can still have a "proper" job and still be seen as a loser by others around you. Also you misunderstood what they meant.

[Dale]

Your description is more like "discrimination" rather than elitism though. There are players who thinks others are lazy/bad at the game, and there are players who think others are elitist/no lifers. Those are all discrimination. If anything, I've seen many "you have no life" comment just like "you suck" comment in this game and on the forum.

IMO elitism means demanding specific lv of gear, even though that lv of gear isn't required to complete the content. Like, insisting other players need a +1 attack ring or something similar.

My description of elitism was in reference to a players attitude toward others they feel are inferior to them for what ever reasons. Discrimination is a possible result of elitism.

But to touch on some of your later postings: picking and choosing who you play with is one thing. If you want to create a group that consists only of players who play jobs you find acceptable that is entirely your right. But unfortunately this kind of elitism rarely stays so focused, and it becomes commonplace in how these players deal with others on a regular basis. Because I've had players come into groups that I created or a friend of mine created and then start mocking other players in the group and telling them their job sucks and they need to re-roll. And this is what I have a problem with.

So in other words: if players want to get together and create a samurai-only club then be my guest. But I think this kind of attitude needs to stay inside the club. When it permeates into the general public it becomes toxic. Because a lot of us do not share in these kind of opinions (and let's be clear, it is just an opinion) that only certain jobs, gear, play-styles etc. are acceptable and everyone else should be scorned or ostracized.

[Dale]

So what do you call someone who plays at the top of their game, who gears for any and all situations that arise, yet treats others with respect and doesn't exclude beyond typical exclusionary barriers (6 person limit, need x job, etc)? Your definition and assertion that any and all who might be "elite" are automatic dicks is pretty insulting.

I think you might be misunderstanding what Lithera is saying.

You can perform at the top of your game without thinking you're elite and others are inferior. So being an elitist really isn't about playing well or taking the time to have the best gear. It's more about someone thinking they are better than others and treating them that way. It's just that you find this kind of attitude more often on those who have the best gear or do perform better than others because it tends to go to their head.

On the flip side though: someone can be an elitist and be horrible at the game and die all the time. They just think they are really good and better than others. So again: it's more about their attitude and having a sense of superiority over others. I think that is what she means when she uses the word elitism.

No one here is trying to cast a negative light on players simply for being well-prepared and playing at the top of their game. Least I hope not.

[Dale]

i've brought undergeared people to more free delves than everyone in this thread added together

the problem is it doesn't fix anything, you start bringing someone who can't pull their weight and many of them just expect you to keep doing so.. it's not enough to get someone every delve win, then they want to be carried through high-tier BCs and such.. people who don't care to put effort in aren't going to suddenly start just because they have the gear to get into groups

helping a few people get 119 gear is nice and all, but unless you're prepared to permanently add them to your static/linkshell/pre-shout recruitment list/harem, they're just going to be back where they were looking a little shinier

no one person or group can solve this problem, for everyone to be able to advance there needs to be someone willing to lead for every 5-8 people willing to do an event.. and there isn't, period

I don't really think there needs to be a leader. Players should be able to just get together and do an event. For example: when I get a few friends together to go kill some notorious monsters or do a skirmish I wouldn't really qualify me as being their leader simply because I asked if they wanted to go do something with me.

Part of the problem in MMORPGs is some players tend to be over-dependent on this idea they need someone to lead them - to tell them exactly what to do and how to play. And this can be very stressful on that one individual who feels success or failure is their sole responsibility simply because they asked if others want to join them. And this is probably why you see so many people unwilling to do it. But the truth is everyone should accept equal responsibility when joining an event, and not attempt to pass all decisions and consequences onto a single person.

There is another angle to this though: and that is you have these video game dictators who think just because you are in his or her group that gives them the power to control you and be their obedient pawn. So there is extremes on both ends and neither is constructive to enjoying the game.

[Comeatmebro]

linkshell events or events between friends don't really need a leader, but shout groups certainly do because you'll get people who've never done the event before, people who do the event different ways, etc.. if everyone just does it their own way it's usually not going to end well

[Dale]

linkshell events or events between friends don't really need a leader, but shout groups certainly do because you'll get people who've never done the event before, people who do the event different ways, etc.. if everyone just does it their own way it's usually not going to end well

I understand what you are saying. But I guess what I'm trying to say is I believe people can find a way to work together without needing to depend on any one person for guidance.

[Glamdring]

No, it is elitism. Most who have an excessive amount of wealth, power, or intelligence do not treat their lessors with any decency. Only because they feel those people are a waste of their time and money and thus feel the need to exclude. also I don't think elitism has ever been viewed in a positive light by anyone, but those who are of the elite and their friends.

you imply they have more intelligence or skill. I've run with "elites", that isn't the case. Most just have more time and a steady group to accumulate better gear, but they don't play their jobs any better than about half the server. Like the WHM who ran in a pick-up delve with us yesterday without RR, he's considered elite, especially by himself. Didn't stop him needing me to raise him.

[Glamdring]

Whether in a game setting or in real life people tend to forget how things were when they were just getting started somewhere. They forget that there was a time when they were less than optimal and didn't know everything. That annoying, ignorant rookie used to be you and someone wasted their valuable time on you or you wouldn't have got to where you are today. The fact that you're unwilling to pay that forward says more about you than it does the undergeared and unprepared newbie.

yep, friend of mine came back after 5 years, 2 weeks ago, he was reading all the advice about how to level to end-game. Jumped into Aby to speed level and got CLOBBERRED, repeatedly. Seems no one warned him what a deathtrap the place was before you have atma and gear and abyssites, and he didn't hit me up to PL him until 2 days later when he remembered my character name. I got him to 99 and into sparks gear so now he's catching up nicely, but if he hadn't found me-well no one else was offering much help.

[Zarchery]

So when people complain that none of the big mean elitists will help them, do they believe they're the first person to ask? I can only redo the same content over and over to help some new person so many times before I get tired of it.