Do you think one day there will be a MMORPG where helping others....

[mattkoko]

Mainly because newbies don't know any of things you are talking about. They don't know how easy or difficult is, nor how many people they actually need or what party compositions to take, on top of being in a PUG to begin with. Etc. etc.

And that is the point, if you are on an alt and already did all this stuff on another character of course it's going to be much easier for you to do it a second time. But if you are new to it or even new to end game in a MMOG then you don't have the experience to make it the less painful way. So you are going to stumble around while you learn. And how many PUGs are willing to spend that much time experimenting like that? In that case you are better off with a LS, but then we go back to the original issue.


PS > And telling people to level up another job just to get it done is the kind of stuff that makes people drop games like this one, specially considering who would realistically want to take a newbie that rushed BRD to 99 just to get the content done, someone who barely knows how to play the job and probably don't even like it to begin with. That's just the type of nonsensical reply you give to someone you just want to dismiss if you ask me.

Also, don't forget that when it first came out, pretty much everyone was doing it. Now that it is older content, newer people are going to have even more trouble. It's not like we get new people coming in at all times like we used to back in the games prime. I actually did have to take up Dray's route to level another job, and in this case it was whm (A job I swore I would never level up until these days) because even when these events where hot, once people got some 119 gear, it quickly became, 119 or gtfo unless your a brd or whm. And this is why Ilevel breaks the game and in my opinion is a horrible design. Back in the 75 days or even when the cap was 99 with no item level, if you took a couple months off, you wouldn't need to change your entire gear set in order to get into something. Even if you took a break when cap was 75 and came back when the cap was 99, all you had to do was level to 99 and get some decent gear even if it was just AH gear and it would be somewhat acceptable. This is not the case anymore. Now, if you took a break during the abyssea era or earlier and came back with item level, yea you get get 117 gear pretty easy, but in order to get 119, you have to be 119.

[Comeatmebro]

group with other 117s

everyone who did it as it was new was using full alliance only in gear that was at best i105 equivalent(yea it had the huge base damage, but without iskill it wasn't -that- far ahead of relics)

now it scales to your group size and you're handed gear that stomps on what the people who originally beat it had to use

if you can't do it, you aren't trying hard enough, the content is a complete joke now(by design, they even said they'd weaken content over time)

[VoiceMemo]

Benefits yourself?

Like here we have endgame gear being sold while in other MMORPGs we have similar things.

I imagine how a newbie might feel after getting 117 gear and realizing he has no chance of either joining an endgame ls and will have to amass 50mil gil at least to buy delve wins.

I know thats utopia but wouldn't it be nice if the game rewarded veterans for helping others with these things?

It really depends on what LS your in. A good LS can make or break your endgame experience. I run a linkshell that I like to call a retirement shell. Where a shell of older players that have played for a while, but no longer can devote the time as they did when they were younger, because of job/family/kids. We still do endgame events but at a slower pace than other shells. Shells like this do exist on asura, you just have to find them.

[mattkoko]

group with other 117s

everyone who did it as it was new was using full alliance only in gear that was at best i105 equivalent(yea it had the huge base damage, but without iskill it wasn't -that- far ahead of relics)

now it scales to your group size and you're handed gear that stomps on what the people who originally beat it had to use

if you can't do it, you aren't trying hard enough, the content is a complete joke now(by design, they even said they'd weaken content over time)

In my opinion, any design of content that relies on it being made into a "complete joke" just after a few months of being out is a poor design.

And I understand and agree with what you are saying that now it is possible, but when I came back after a year off, even when the content was hot, as I said, I still had to level whm to get into anything. Because by the time I caught up to where everyone was before the update to 119, they already had their 119 stuff and were shouting for only 119 jobs. This is where new players and returning players may have trouble. Which is why I think it is a poor design. Because the same cycle will happen when 129 comes out. Because if you don't get first dibs on the new stuff with in the first week or 2, you will be sol until they make it into a "complete joke" again. Unless you are a part of an ls that is willing to help and is flexible. I am lucky that one of my LSes was still running when I came back.

[Afania]

Benefits yourself?

Like here we have endgame gear being sold while in other MMORPGs we have similar things.

I imagine how a newbie might feel after getting 117 gear and realizing he has no chance of either joining an endgame ls and will have to amass 50mil gil at least to buy delve wins.

I know thats utopia but wouldn't it be nice if the game rewarded veterans for helping others with these things?

FYI FFXI used to give out incentives to veterans for helping others by making veterans needing help for everything they do as well.

Can't open gates in certain zone? Need help!
Need help with tele.
Need help with killing certain NM and get items.
Need help with building an Abyssea weapon.

You can't solo most of the content, and you get gear by lotting drops but not points, so you need to ask others to help if you want the drop. You can't go to most of the places, so you need to ask friend/ls mate for tele. Because everyone would need help at one point of time, so they need to "do others a favor" in order to get help when they need it.

Now that everything is either solo friendly, and every participant gets nearly equal chance for items, there are zero incentive to help others for free. When you do content, everyone gets stuff, so only those who needs stuff would come.

I have been playing since lv 75, despite many ls also merc items at lv 75, I always feel the community was a lot closer and helpful at lv 75. Back then if one person needs joyeuse, nearly entire LS would come and help that person claim it, even though only 1 person out of many can get the item, rest of the lsmate get nothing.

Now if you ask someone to help with event, they wouldn't come unless they get something out of it.

Yeah, why help others if you don't need their help? Wanting FFXI to become a more solo friendly MMO = less incentive to help others.

P.S Btw, you don't need 50M to get all 6 delve wins.

[Afania]

group with other 117s

everyone who did it as it was new was using full alliance only in gear that was at best i105 equivalent(yea it had the huge base damage, but without iskill it wasn't -that- far ahead of relics)

now it scales to your group size and you're handed gear that stomps on what the people who originally beat it had to use

if you can't do it, you aren't trying hard enough, the content is a complete joke now(by design, they even said they'd weaken content over time)

Lol @ grouping with other 117s. Other 117s would just buy win or lv a mage and leech win, making the server less competent 117 to choose from/group with. From what I've seen, 98% of the ppl aren't going to "try hard" with other 117 and wipe several times for a win. Seriously, stop comparing FFXI in 2013 July to FFXI in 2014, we can "try hard" in 2013 because we had to, in 2014 there are zero incentive to do it the hard way.

[Malithar]

Seriously, stop comparing FFXI in 2013 July to FFXI in 2014, we can "try hard" in 2013 because we had to, in 2014 there are zero incentive to do it the hard way.

Going to take a logic leap and say for the people who need the clears, the incentive is there. The problem lies in the community and posts like this that act like doing such content in 115-117 gear is not possible or "too hard" to bother with. They get convinced that they'll never ever see these completions short of buying them.

While I don't mind it for the business, I hope they realize it's plenty doable.

[Afania]

Going to take a logic leap and say for the people who need the clears, the incentive is there. The problem lies in the community and posts like this that act like doing such content in 115-117 gear is not possible or "too hard" to bother with. They get convinced that they'll never ever see these completions short of buying them.

While I don't mind it for the business, I hope they realize it's plenty doable.

Clearing delve1 in full party of 117 gear is doable, it's just completely not worth the effort. The risk of failing is too high, it'd take several tries to get win, 1/1 is highly unlikely. In PUG there are generally very little trust in the pt, if there's 1~2 fail the entire pt would disband with players blisting each other, thus making it harder for a group of static practice the run and fix their mistakes.

In June/July 2013 most of the group that have cleared delve1 did not 1/1 tojil/shark. Some group may managed to 1/1 ceizak after they've cleared tojil/shark, but I don't know many group/ls that cleared Tojil/shark on their first try at that time.

Since most of the groups couldn't clear delve1 at that time, their only chance is to stick with their LS, kept practicing the run, fix their mistakes and eventually got clear.

This isn't happening in PUG, PUGs disband and point fingers at each other after failure. They're not going to stay with the pt and gain experience together.

Note that delve1 clear cost 3M on my server, once I even undercut to 1M when I made a pt. It doesn't take more than a couple of hours to farm 1~3M to buy win. You can make enough gil with 1 salvage+ 1 dyna.

The time you may spend to /shout for a stunner/BRD/WHM, make a pt of 6, and waste time after a fail run, rep ppl that left the pt and go again, you're more likely to spend more time than doing 1 salvage+1 dyna.

So why would you take risk at making a pt that may fail, when you can spend same amount of time to farm gil and get 100% win?

You are correct that "Need the clear" is an incentive, except when more efficient option exists, most ppl would go with a more efficient route, which is to spend 2.5hr to farm gil, buy win and get it done with.

[Comeatmebro]

risk of failing is only as high as the players incompetence, you can find full guides for what needs to be done and none of it's very hard

sch sch | whm brd cor geo mnk mnk with nobody wearing anything but sparks gear and no accessories could 1/1 tojil if they took the time to read a strategy

[Zarchery]

I can tell this is going to become one of those 80 page long threads with lots of bickering and personal attacks.