Alex Supply and Salvage Cheating- Accounts Not Banned?

[Hoshi]

The last time I got a tell about gil, and that had to be over a year ago, gil was $3 for a mil. I think that's about 1/4th of the price from 2005 (I remember being amazed how much they offered gil for back then). I am in a linkshell that sells clears and items and at least on my server there aren't many buyers left. Perhaps some people do still buy gil but I don't think they're a driving force in the game economy.

Also, I don't think that the lack of severe punishment is a neon green sign to cheat because SE fixed the problem. I'm sure it's possible to do other things but I imagine that SE will correct those things as they find them as well.

[Safiyyah]

You're also not taking into account all the players it helped.

You are really going to try to paint the players using this exploit to make billions of gil and/or multiple mythics as a net positive? You may not realize this, but very many players farm Salvage v2 for gil. The effect of flooding the market with ill-gotten alex was to devalue these many players' work for the sake of the very few. No, this cheating did not result in a net benefit for the server.

And let's put all of our cards on the table here. The bulk of the widely-known NA alexandrite cheaters on Sylph came from your linkshell, along with a couple from TLoU. If S-E had punished the cheaters in the proper fashion, with the perman-bans that they deserve, then Pen15 would basically cease to exist on our server.

But with this exploit happening, the supply rose and the idea of making a mythic became a reality for more people, especially with the prices (slowly) dropping. I can remember multiple instances where people were shouting to buy Alexandrite and competing with each other just so they would get to buy it instead of the other person. Once again, a supply problem that shouldn't be happening.

When SE made it so you can enter Salvage it was one of the best things to happen, yet it also had a downside. While the accessibility was great for everyone, it also increased the number of players making mythics. Not only are those players not selling any Alexandrite they are getting, but they are likely also adding to the amount of buyers, thus lowering the supply yet again.

Nonsense. I made a mythic starting in December without buying from any huge pools of cheat currency. I bought 100-200 at a time from a few players who were farming Salvage for money towards relics/etc., many LS mates, and when the supply went short I farmed the last 10k myself. It took a couple of months of 45 minutes a day (for two players), but that's reasonable for one of the best weapons in the game. Even when people were shouting to compete over alex, I still managed to find some to buy. So don't tell me that we needed cheating to supply players building mythics with alex. It just isn't accurate.

Should there be/have been repercussions for taking advantage of this exploit? Of course. The big question is to what extent. SE pretty much made it clear that they can't afford to lose these subscriptions. A rollback or taking away the items people got is a possibility, but I'm of the opinion that will have the same effect as a ban. I almost feel like it would have been better for SE to just fix the exploit (which they did) and leave it at that. Most people probably didn't even know about it until the suspensions hit. I'm not sure how feasible it is, but I imagine SE could add tags to these accounts (similar to the Mentor tag). That way those with the "better than thou" attitude can avoid doing events/activities with these players and those who don't care can continue on as normal.

Why should Square-Enix jump through hoops to mark players as scumbags? Just ban anyone who took advantage of the Salvage exploit. If they want to come back, get a new account, or stay gone. It'd suck to lose some of the crafters on Sylph but so be it, these players made their choice.

[Redbeam]

So don't tell me that we needed cheating to supply players building mythics with alex. It just isn't accurate.

I don't see where he said it was needed. He said it helped. If I run out of gas, it may take me 15 minutes to push my car to a gas station. However, a car with 3 roided body builders stopped and helped me push my car to the gas station, taking only 3 minutes. Sure, they're cheats and they did HELP me get to the gas station. If I said that they were of help, it doesn't mean that I'm saying they were needed.

Nobody told you that anyone NEEDED cheating, you just decided to throw words in someone's mouth.

Edit:
My personal thoughts. The trick is supposedly patched/fixed. They can't go back and change any harm done; unless you're proposing somehow a perma-ban would do that? (If so, please elaborate). SE did the punishment of their choosing. If you want to decide the punishment yourself, apply to become senior GM for FFXI and then do it yourself

[Tomiko]

You are really going to try to paint the players using this exploit to make billions of gil and/or multiple mythics as a net positive?

Nowhere in my post did I say it was a net positive. I just stated that there were positive aspects to it.

And let's put all of our cards on the table here. The bulk of the widely-known NA alexandrite cheaters on Sylph came from your linkshell, along with a couple from TLoU. If S-E had punished the cheaters in the proper fashion, with the perman-bans that they deserve, then Pen15 would basically cease to exist on our server.

Clearly you're butthurt about something someone in our linkshell did to you since you like bringing up our ls all the time. Maybe you had a talk with Kingzak. Meeting him is usually enough to piss people off.

Also, if you knew so much about our linkshell you would know that the ls is pretty much dead aside from a handful of members that still play the game (and by play the game I mean stand in town doing nothing).

So don't tell me that we needed cheating to supply players building mythics with alex. It just isn't accurate.

when the supply went short I farmed the last 10k myself.

Thanks for contradicting yourself and validating my claim.

Why should Square-Enix jump through hoops to mark players as scumbags? Just ban anyone who took advantage of the Salvage exploit. If they want to come back, get a new account, or stay gone. It'd suck to lose some of the crafters on Sylph but so be it, these players made their choice.

It was made as a suggestion to appease butthurt players like you who aren't happy with the "punishment" SE did give out.

Have you not noticed how dead the server is already? By all means, go join one of the daily shouts that takes hours to fill up because we're already low on players willing to do anything. Clearly banning active players that occasionally join these shouts is the way to go. Ban these players and I guarantee you that you'll be bitching about the lack of players in the game making it unable for you to do events.

[Reain]

Tos pls. Sometimes I do laps up and down port jeuno, not just afk.

[Tomiko]

Edit:
My personal thoughts. The trick is supposedly patched/fixed.

Just confirming that it is in fact fixed. I've talked to a couple people who were suspended and they confirmed that the exploit no longer works. The Khimaira no longer respawns after the first time. it was actually patched a couple days before the suspensions hit.

[Redbeam]

Edit in my last post, "can" was supposed to be "can't" lol. That probably made no sense.

and yea, if it's patched, idk what further harm could be done by said perps, so is there even a reason to perma? They perma ban RMT for example to prevent them from doing RMT in the future. Theoretically (which I know is impossible), if there were a way to completely end RMT, then I don't see why there'd be a reason to go back and ban everyone who had did it in the past, as it will do nothing to enhance the game for anyone from that point on

[Safiyyah]

Nowhere in my post did I say it was a net positive. I just stated that there were positive aspects to it.

There sure were, for the people who exploited the glitch.

Clearly you're butthurt about something someone in our linkshell did to you since you like bringing up our ls all the time. Maybe you had a talk with Kingzak. Meeting him is usually enough to piss people off.

Also, if you knew so much about our linkshell you would know that the ls is pretty much dead aside from a handful of members that still play the game (and by play the game I mean stand in town doing nothing).

I don't know anyone in your linkshell, and outside of a few VW pickups, have never had any dealings with anyone in your linkshell. I'm just stating a fact- the most obvious offenders among NAs on Sylph came from your linkshell. The reason why I pointed that out is because I don't want players from other servers thinking that you are offering your unbiased perspective on this issue.

Thanks for contradicting yourself and validating my claim.

It doesn't validate your claim in the slightest. There has always been alex available. Even if there's not that much in bazaars at any given time, buy from friends and lsmates, tons of people farm alex. And most jobs in ilvl gear can farm alex solo and finish a mythic in a reasonable amount of time. I did it myself, I know others who did it, and any "help" the exploit gave our server was minimal compared to the harm it caused.

It was made as a suggestion to appease butthurt players like you who aren't happy with the "punishment" SE did give out.

Have you not noticed how dead the server is already? By all means, go join one of the daily shouts that takes hours to fill up because we're already low on players willing to do anything. Clearly banning active players that occasionally join these shouts is the way to go. Ban these players and I guarantee you that you'll be bitching about the lack of players in the game making it unable for you to do events.

I'm not "butthurt". The way S-E handled this was wrong, given the sheer size and scope of the cheat.

As far as the server being dead, I only run content with my LS, but I notice Sylph has been slow lately. If it gets even slower due to banning some cheaters, I'm fine with that. Some will come back, others won't, and the end result is that S-E sends the right message- cheat and get the boot. I feel zero sympathy for the cheaters.

At the very least, these players should have their character rolled back, mythics taken, and gil zero'ed. And I mean at the very least, that doesn't put the genie back in the bottle, but at least they won't personally benefit.

[Tomiko]

I'm just stating a fact- the most obvious offenders among NAs on Sylph came from your linkshell. The reason why I pointed that out is because I don't want players from other servers thinking that you are offering your unbiased perspective on this issue.

Since you're saying it's a fact, please enlighten me and list these obvious offenders. I'm not going to confirm or deny whether any of them did it or not (I know some who did in fact do it, and others who didn't even know about it until it was public). I'm mainly just curious who you think they are. I will confirm at least 1 person made it quite obvious though.

If the reason people are "obvious offenders" is because they have mythics, I can tell you that there were multiple people in our shell that were farming ADL before everyone started doing it.

[Tomiko]

At the very least, these players should have their character rolled back, mythics taken, and gil zero'ed. And I mean at the very least, that doesn't put the genie back in the bottle, but at least they won't personally benefit.

Sure, just make sure to rollback anyone these players helped as well. It's only fair. Wouldn't want anyone else to benefit off the cheaters after all.