[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] NIN

[Xsilver]

So you'll occasionally pull a Shuriken/Dirk out of hammerspace and throw it at the mob when it procs on a dual wield auto-attack.

[Rubicant82]

you will most likely need to have something you can throw equipped in the ammo slot for it to proc if not though, that could be very interesting.

[Glamdring]

I'm just going to quietly go back to reread a thread called "a Ninja Without Throwing" from the beginnings of the forums so I can laugh at all the people who flamed him so much for suggesting that throwing could/should be an integral part of nin play... poor guy, turns out he was the one SE listened to.

[Karbuncle]

I'm just going to quietly go back to reread a thread called "a Ninja Without Throwing" from the beginnings of the forums so I can laugh at all the people who flamed him so much for suggesting that throwing could/should be an integral part of nin play... poor guy, turns out he was the one SE listened to.

They didn't flame him in a way that said "THROWING IS STUPID AND SHOULDNT BE A PART OF NINJA", they flamed him in a way that said "Ranged delay and Ninjas naturally high dual wield makes throwing impossible in FFXI for right now". Very very different context. It was shown many a time that even with an absurdly high DPS Shuriken throwing would still hinder a Ninjas TP and WS output, as well as their overall damage.

The fact Square is making it a job trait like Kick attacks is more than clear evidence there was no other way to make throwing useful compared to the melee DPS NIN outputs.

THAT SAID BRUH - This idea they came up with is absolutely great, I think it was even already suggested in that same thread you mentioned (I even made suggestions in that thread lol). I do remember reading a long time ago someone mentioning "Throwing" shuriken like a kick attack or something, except I think they intended it to be consumed, giving it a 100% Recycle chance is also a great idea.

My guess is they'll now be adding some high level r/ex Shuriken with good damage and good buffs... Now i have to wonder will it be based on throwing skill? I think it will be... so level your Throwing friends

[Glamdring]

I think you may want to reread that. my recollection is that most of the flaming was about as baseless as the political troll hate posts you see in other forums. a VERY few discussed mechanics, and frankly, there were a lot of very viable suggestions even with the mechanics as they stood that would make a throwing nin-especially if he interspersed casting-about as useful as the midpoint between cor and rng in the ranged damage category. and it was prophetic in that Aby boss mobs were the beginning of the end for blink-tanking in end-game with all the god-awful AoE damage they've added to end-game content that leave even a good nin's shadows up for what, 5 seconds? so a mechanism that would allow increased DD utility for a nin was a great idea, and not really ahead of its time. what he failed to factor in is that while there have been many things that didn't scale into upper levels-especially ilevel-properly (pet utility to name the biggest to me), the utility/survivability from /dnc is NOT one of them and allows nin to function even without shadows. That said, when is the last time you saw a new end-game strat that involved a nin main? soloing they are ok, but party love... not so much.

of course, you know me, the advocate for all 22 jobs to be equally useful, just via different means...

[Karbuncle]

It'd be nice if there was a bit more balance between all the jobs though, and some weren't so far ahead useful, and other so far behind useless... but I mean, I was reading over some FFXIV stuff with that live stream, and BLU was mentioned... the excuses and reasons they gave for it being difficult to introduce BLU are more or less the exact problems I want to avoid in XI. They're afraid to add BLU almost entirely because it requires you go out and learn spells from enemies, so they're afraid people won't invite BLUs who dont have the right spells...

Another note was they didn't want Summoner to be more "Pet Job" oriented, and wanted it to remain basically a "DoT" job, because if they put more focus on the pet... your skill for the job will have more impact on how you play and they don't want to make the job too technical (cause they know their demographic lol).

Basically the meaning behind this is the only way to truly balance 22 jobs to be useful and interchangeable more or less would be to remove any uniqueness between them so no one possesses to big of a bonus over another, ala FFXIV. I would not enjoy this type of game...

[FrankReynolds]

I fully expect this to get used about as much as kick attacks does on monk. My hopes are not up. I would love to be able to replace a RNG in a PUG, but I just don't see this being something that you can full time. SE's love affair with the yin and yang means that it will probably have some horrible side affect like melee accuracy -100, defense -50% or melee delay +500. and share a timer with whatever ability overwrites it so that once you pop it you're stuck with it for longer than you would like.

Either that or it will only be good when used with a set of macro pieces that come exclusively from high level fights that no one uses a ninja on and don't drop items that are useful for the jobs that are needed.

If it's useful at all for full time range attacks, it will poop all over RNGs single use.

[Glamdring]

well if it's a straight job trait like the occasional kicks a monk dishes out without footwork I don't think it really matters frank, just stay breathing and the things will fly. interesting to see how it's implemented.

[Karbuncle]

I fully expect this to get used about as much as kick attacks does on monk. My hopes are not up. I would love to be able to replace a RNG in a PUG, but I just don't see this being something that you can full time. SE's love affair with the yin and yang means that it will probably have some horrible side affect like melee accuracy -100, defense -50% or melee delay +500. and share a timer with whatever ability overwrites it so that once you pop it you're stuck with it for longer than you would like.

Either that or it will only be good when used with a set of macro pieces that come exclusively from high level fights that no one uses a ninja on and don't drop items that are useful for the jobs that are needed.

If it's useful at all for full time range attacks, it will poop all over RNGs single use.

Firstly, you're thinking of "Footwork".

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Footwork

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kick_Attacks

Two completely different things. They said it will be like Kick Attacks, so basically it'll be a job trait that will automatically throw shuriken, its just like double attack, an additional attack round, except with shuriken and not your foot.

This shuriken thing will probably use the base damage of the shuriken equipped, so no special foot armor required... Not to mention shuriken have generally quite high DPS, so that won't be a problem for NIN if this trait works well. I imagine it'll also grant additional TP. I imagine they'll make shuriken that offer bonuses outside of base damage too, like a shuriken with Acc+ or something to accommodate the use of this new ability.

[FrankReynolds]

Firstly, you're thinking of "Footwork".

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Footwork

http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Kick_Attacks

Two completely different things. They said it will be like Kick Attacks, so basically it'll be a job trait that will automatically throw shuriken, its just like double attack, an additional attack round, except with shuriken and not your foot.

This shuriken thing will probably use the base damage of the shuriken equipped, so no special foot armor required... Not to mention shuriken have generally quite high DPS, so that won't be a problem for NIN if this trait works well. I imagine it'll also grant additional TP. I imagine they'll make shuriken that offer bonuses outside of base damage too, like a shuriken with Acc+ or something to accommodate the use of this new ability.

You're right. I was thinking of footwork.

Unfortunately, I don't think it will really satisfy other people's craving for throwing if it just functions like an additional melee attack. And it will still probably have some awful side effect like increased delay or whatever other horror SE can think of.