Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

[WoW]

I think his point is geared more towards the question of whom exactly isn't allowing you to play the job you love. And the answer is always "the other players". So unless SE makes other jobs OP enough to change the meta of the game so people uses other jobs (eventually leading to leaving most jobs but the most OP in end game again) there isn't much they can do about it.

This has always happened and it has always been a community problem rather than a balance one.

Most players simply lack the skill and will to think about different ways of doing things, so they will just sheeply follow the strategy a few groups develop around X,Y and Z jobs/roles. Even if there are jobs that can work just as good of better if you adjust your strategy accordingly they will willingly ignore them unless they mean players can put even less effort into developing a strategy.

You can see proof of that in the way zerg "strategies" took over, since they were easier to use with a PUG (zero coordination required) while also providing big damage numbers and results (aka wins.) Did that mean players couldn't defeat the content in any other way? No, it just meant all shouts would be focused on the current flavor of the month strategy.

And since most jobs would not fit into that they would be left out, which then translated into rage and inferiority complex. But I digress.

My original point was that as Zarchery said, if you want to do things differently with the job you love then organize things yourself. And if you don't want to then level the current job flavor of the month, because no matter how many jobs get nerfed new ones will always take their place in the meta, and if you don't have some different jobs leveled chances are you will be left out of the bandwagon almost every time.

SE basically admitted that sam was overpowered, which is why they are updating other jobs http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post513076

I also disagree with the notion that this is a player problem as opposed to a balance issue when SE basically admitted this in the aforementioned link. Although players tend to use the easiest strategy, I agree with that. However, Bst is not out-dding a sam nor rng. That is a balance problem. Pets are stripped down/experience accuracy issues on difficult battles and the master is essentially a one-handed dd. Not sure the pt would clear lvl128 delve by swapping out sam for bst. I mean, replace rng and sams with bst; yikes. If it can be done, I am wit it^^ Perhaps it will open the eyes of the community, but i seriously doubt it....

[Raydeus]

SE basically admitted that sam was overpowered, which is why they are updating other jobs http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post513076

I also disagree with the notion that this is a player problem as opposed to a balance issue when SE basically admitted this in the aforementioned link. Although players tend to use the easiest strategy, I agree with that. However, Bst is not out-dding a sam nor rng. That is a balance problem. Pets are stripped down/experience accuracy issues on difficult battles and the master is essentially a one-handed dd. Not sure the pt would clear lvl128 delve by swapping out sam for bst. I mean, replace rng and sams with bst; yikes. If it can be done, I am wit it^^ Perhaps it will open the eyes of the community, but i seriously doubt it....

This part is exactly the problem with players that I'm talking about.

Players are so dumb they want to exchange one job that plays one way with another that plays completely differently while using the exact same cookie cutter strategy they copied from someone else and are outraged when it doesn't work the same.

You don't just "replace SAMs and RNGs with BSTs" and play the same way. You also have to adjust your strategy, which requires actually thinking a bit. And that is what most players are incapable of doing, hence the exclusion of jobs that don't fit in the current bandwagon strategy.

This is one of the major reasons why I personally don't bother with end game anymore, just can't deal with just how cowardly unimaginative players can be. A loss or two and you always have people whining about party composition and rage quitting good parties, even if said parties always end up winning consistently later on. And the same can be said about gear "requirements" and BiS bullshit, but that's just another symptom of the same disease.

But anyway, about SAM being overpowered or not it really doesn't mean anything, because there will always be a job that is considered OP no matter what. And no amount of tweaking will ever fix that. If SAM is nerfed another job will take it's place in the OP hall of fame the next week and nothing will have changed at all. Because again, the problem are the players.

[WoW]

This part is exactly the problem with players that I'm talking about.

Players are so dumb they want to exchange one job that plays one way with another that plays completely differently while using the exact same cookie cutter strategy they copied from someone else and are outraged when it doesn't work the same.

You don't just "replace SAMs and RNGs with BSTs" and play the same way. You also have to adjust your strategy, which requires actually thinking a bit. And that is what most players are incapable of doing, hence the exclusion of jobs that don't fit in the current bandwagon strategy.

This is one of the major reasons why I personally don't bother with end game anymore, just can't deal with just how cowardly unimaginative players can be. A loss or two and you always have people whining about party composition and rage quitting good parties, even if said parties always end up winning consistently later on. And the same can be said about gear "requirements" and BiS bullshit, but that's just another symptom of the same disease.

But anyway, about SAM being overpowered or not it really doesn't mean anything, because there will always be a job that is considered OP no matter what. And no amount of tweaking will ever fix that. If SAM is nerfed another job will take it's place in the OP hall of fame the next week and nothing will have changed at all. Because again, the problem are the players.

Efficacy

Why bring a weaker dd, as opposed to a broken one? Sure ppl can try/do the bst strat, however, the chance of success is much higher with sams or rngs, because they are superior dd. Bottomline is this; sam and rng > bst. This is what the argument is about. Sams are better dd than bst; regardless if you get imaginative and clear a delve with dead ppl and red hp. Pets have crap acc and weak ready moves; why bring corsairs to buff them as opposed to a superior REMD dd? Sam and rng are better dd than bst and nearly everyone else; this is the argument. As a result, they are more efficient in endgame.

[Raydeus]

Efficacy

Why bring a weaker dd, as opposed to a broken one? Sure ppl can try/do the bst strat, however, the chance of success is much higher with sams or rngs, because they are superior dd. Bottomline is this; sam and rng > bst. This is what the argument is about. Sams are better dd than bst; regardless if you get imaginative and clear a delve with dead ppl and red hp. Pets have crap acc and weak ready moves; why bring corsairs to buff them as opposed to a superior REMD dd? Sam and rng are better dd than bst and nearly everyone else; this is the argument. As a result, they are more efficient in endgame.

Efficacy? Yeah it's so efficient that SE had to make severe Enmity adjustments to placate the whining about tanks not being able to hold hate off DDs going all out on fights and getting themselves and the party killed as a result. Hate used to somewhat balance damage output because if you went too hard too soon you'd get yourself killed or become an unsustainable MP sponge. That is why in the past in those cases DDs would hold back and only go full on to finish the fights.

Also, in those cases jobs that are able to manage damage output and enmity better would have a more sustained damage over time, and coincidentally pet jobs are pretty good at doing just that. Less flashy for sure, but just as effective. In other words, SAM and RNG haven't changed much, it's just that now they can go nuts without getting killed as easy as before thanks to recent adjustments.

But to call that "efficient" is as applicable as calling an 8 cylinder car from the 70's more fuel efficient than an electric car just because it can go up a hill faster.


PS > And about those BST setup barely clearing the content, that would only happen at first while you got the strategy down, then it would be just as simple as the bandwagon strategies. It has always been that way.

[Balloon]

I don't understand how enmity works. At all.

Yeah, that's not how enmity works. There's a fundamental problem with it.

[Raydeus]

I put words on the people's mouth but don't make a proper post so maybe I can sound smarter.

I can see the fun in doing this.

[WoW]

Efficacy? Yeah it's so efficient that SE had to make severe Enmity adjustments to placate the whining about tanks not being able to hold hate off DDs going all out on fights and getting themselves and the party killed as a result. Hate used to somewhat balance damage output because if you went too hard too soon you'd get yourself killed or become an unsustainable MP sponge. That is why in the past in those cases DDs would hold back and only go full on to finish the fights.

Also, in those cases jobs that are able to manage damage output and enmity better would have a more sustained damage over time, and coincidentally pet jobs are pretty good at doing just that. Less flashy for sure, but just as effective. In other words, SAM and RNG haven't changed much, it's just that now they can go nuts without getting killed as easy as before thanks to recent adjustments.

But to call that "efficient" is as applicable as calling an 8 cylinder car from the 70's more fuel efficient than an electric car just because it can go up a hill faster.


PS > And about those BST setup barely clearing the content, that would only happen at first while you got the strategy down, then it would be just as simple as the bandwagon strategies. It has always been that way.

Most lvl99s know how to manage their dd output, hence nobody was talking about enmity. This is what we are saying: Sam and Rng > bst. The enmity is obviously a non-issue, because sams and rngs are in high demand. We are discussing job balance, not enmity; obviously too much damage draws enmity. I don't recall mentioning enmity or resenting that..........

Sam and RNG > Bst; this is what I am referring to. No clue were this other stuff is coming from "Shrugs"

If you are just defending your post; i will back off and let you get the last word. If enmity was a big deal; sam and rngs would not be in high demand. DDs are there to deal damage. We learned how to manage enmity in the dunes. Having weaker dds equates to longer battles and tp feed which results in mp sponge regardless brah.