A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

[Olor]

It's also hard not to get frustrated when the new attachments finally come out and they are craft only and require an item that is in demand for other uses.

Vanir battery is sitting around 3m, and crafters have set the price of the new attachments to 3m-4m despite the x3 yield.

So the answer is food that only barely brings automatons into the range where they should be? Great, we get to pay even more gil to sort of be viable?

Yeah I haven't taken out my PUP in ages because it's frustrating enough playing one entirely broken job, and PUP requires SO MUCH GIL and at the end of it... sadness as it simply isn't desirable in almost any content.... So my PUP, while 99, is really not geared up and skilled up because I can't do that to myself. SE really needs to give pet jobs a break from single-handedly maintaining the crafting economy. Sometimes it feels like we're just about the only jobs that make crafters rich anymore.

[Mitruya]

The only gil I spend on my PUP is the materials for reforging, and since sparks come so slow I've been able to spread it out. (it isn't just crafters making a killing here)
I only bought a few stacks of Shiromochi and Akamochi out of curiosity but really don't have a use for them solo. (Maybe I should tackle a VE AA ... it sure didn't help me in Doh gates -_- )
I haven't bothered to buy the new attachments. Why spend that much on a job that can't participate in anything?
But yeah, if you are new to the job and trying to catch up, I can't imagine. Though I noticed that with attachments floating up in flotsam now, a lot of stuff has gone down in price.

[Shinron-PUP]

Although Puppetmaster has been getting a lot of reworking over the last few years like the complete overhaul of the mage frame's AI, Puppetmaster is still a pretty undesired job even after sinking a lot of money into it like Mitruya, Olor, and Moppet have said already. I mean I have literally every item a puppetmaster could want: Kenkonken (mythic), Verethragna, All attachments, all reforged sets, and honestly I still cannot keep up with the demand of high level content these days. I will say that damage wise I can usually keep up with the monks or even out DD them depending on the person, but damage isn't so much the issue for the master in comparison to survival.

The "master" component of Puppetmaster, a lot like the masters of other pet jobs, can damage deal fairly well, but simply just miss the defensive capabilities of normal classes like Monk's counterstance and or high HP that help them stay alive while monsters are spamming deadly AoEs. I believe that with pet jobs, there is slightly a little bit too much emphasis on Job abilities that focus simply on the survival of the pet rather than both the master and the pet. Puppetmaster does not have a single ability that helps to keep the master alive, so we're essentially Damage dealing like any other job can but without all of the survival capabilities, which is useless if you end up getting floored in the first two minutes of fighting a high level content monster. Honestly this is the story of my life when playing Puppetmaster in delve. I always end up tanking because no one can keep up with my damage, but I end up floored in the next couple of minutes because of my small HP pool and lack of defense and job abilities that could mitigate some of the damage.

Another concern that makes the survival of the master difficult ties to the stigma around pet jobs. A lot of the time if I show up to delve on my Puppetmaster, because most players assume that most pet jobs players are pretty useless, most of the white mages will prioritize curing me last over one of the more "essential" jobs like Monk although I'm tanking and dealing more damage than they are. Unfortunately this isn't something that the developement team can directly fix, but I think it's only fair that they make it easier for us to survive on our own granted we have a lot of difficulties getting help from our party members.


If the masters of pet jobs could get access to similiar defensive capabilities that standard damage dealers have, I believe that would partly solve some of our issues we face in high level content.

Another problem that Puppetmaster is currently facing right now is the fact that our Automatons are getting outdated as the game progresses. Automatons at 99 (before Ilvl gear and 119) were a pretty decent reflection of the 99 version of the job that they were geared as, but now with the introduction of 119 armor, all of our automatons have fallen behind damage wise comparatively.

The pet that I would like to emphasis is Black mage (Spirit Reaver). This pet has fallen behind for multiple reasons, but the biggest problem is the AI. The blackmage frame has a static timer for when each spells can be used that can amount to the frame casting elemental magic at the least every 15 seconds or so. However sometimes you can be waiting for up to 30 seconds or more for one elemental spell. Standard Black Mages have already been angry about the static 2~3 second wait between each elemental magic spell that has lowered their dps considerably, so when thinking about only casting every 15 seconds, the black mage frames dps seems pretty undesirable. Literally the only way to fix Mage Automaton's AI so that it can actually be of some use in fast paced battle fields is to allow us to have manual execution of magic spells which in other words would mean allowing us to pick the spells our automatons can use out of a magic list similar to how Black Mage can. The automaton could still function on its own the same way it does now, but allowing us to control when and what its next spell is would put this frame back on the map. Magic manual execution for automatons isn't a foreign idea. The development team actually said that they planned to look into doing this about three years ago, but suddenly any information related to this disappeared. I posted their comment some time back in this thread, but I can do it again if people would like to see it.

By addings manual execution, it would allow Puppetmasters to actually use our frames in a more strategic way during group content rather than us hoping that the next spell our pet casts is a cure rather than slow, when we're about to die. This would also make it easier to cast desired spells without having certain maneuvers up. We could even get a larger array of spells such as gravity, bind, and even the new ones like flurry, frazzle, and distract that would allow us to be a desired job when needing a debuffer.

[Mitruya]

Thank you for your thorough and well-written posts, that explain things so much better than I can.
That being said, I'm jealous you get to go to anything as PUP. ;p
I'd been wondering if I got all the things you already have would it make a difference; it doesn't sound like it. I've been slacking on farming gil and sparks to finish the reforging, 'cause all I'd really get is a new (old) costume.

[Puck]

Out of curiosity, do all you PUPs know of and use ADD (Activate-Deploy-Deactivate) with your mage puppets? It's a really handy trick that SE thankfully never took away from us... possibly because taking it away would totally kill the utility of mage frames and screw us royally, and they know PUP is still at the bottom of the heap. I'm just wondering how many new PUPs are aware of it.

[Shinron-PUP]

Thank you for your thorough and well-written posts, that explain things so much better than I can.
That being said, I'm jealous you get to go to anything as PUP. ;p
I'd been wondering if I got all the things you already have would it make a difference; it doesn't sound like it. I've been slacking on farming gil and sparks to finish the reforging, 'cause all I'd really get is a new (old) costume.

I do participate in all end game content on Puppetmaster, but I don't think it has anything to do with my gear. It's probably because I create my own groups for things like delve and I also refuse to play any other job but the one I like. I think any Puppetmaster, including you, is capable of playing the job in whatever content, but you just have to be willing to create your own groups and deal with your shortcomings as a damage dealer in comparison to just simply having a monk. The sad truth is that no gear currently in the game for Puppetmaster can really fix those shortcomings. I'd say that the only piece of armor for puppetmaster that is a game changer is the mythic hand-to-hand Kenkonken because it allows you to essentially use maneuvers as much as you want without the worry and need for gear swapping in overload reduction gear. Cooldown and overload reduction gear does eliminate the worry of overloading to some extent, but the mythic makes it so that it's essentially impossible to overload. Other than kenkonken, really the game play for a Puppetmaster without fancy gear is about the same that of one with excellent armor. Attachments play a large role of course in playing style, but most attachments except for like damage gauge, armor plates, and barrier module, you can survive without. Other attachments are useful but they don't dramatically change Puppetmaster however. So long story short, there's nothing we can do at the moment to allow us to be viable options in high level content. We simply just need a update to maneuver mechanics, pet survival, master survival, attachments, automaton AI, along with a couple other issues.

Out of curiosity, do all you PUPs know of and use ADD (Activate-Deploy-Deactivate) with your mage puppets? It's a really handy trick that SE thankfully never took away from us... possibly because taking it away would totally kill the utility of mage frames and screw us royally, and they know PUP is still at the bottom of the heap. I'm just wondering how many new PUPs are aware of it.

I believe some Puppetmasters are aware of DAD but i'm not sure if all are. Back at 75 using DAD was a necessity because it would take years for our black mage automaton to cast a nuke, so it would be easier to reset it so that it would nuke faster. I actually still do that today because the blackmage auto takes forever to nuke still. DAD is and was definitely a better way to regenerate the MP pool because using Mana converter and Economizer had its risks of overload and losing HP. I think the possible reason why DAD has not been removed is because your pet must be at 100% HP in order for you to use the technique which can be extremely difficult to maintain when you're facing NMs that spam poison and other AoEs. Also they haven't abolished it because they don't want the activate timer to automatically reset to 20 minutes if your pet despawns when you zone somewhere, otherwise it would put us at a disadvantage when we enter a battlefield. I'm also curious if players are aware of the uses of ventriloquy. If a monster aggros you, as long as you don't touch it you can use ventriloquy and deactivate to despawn it. I usually do that any time I aggro something that I can't handle like a strong NM. A lot of the tricks like DAD essentially giving you infinite MP is why I fell in love with Puppetmaster to begin with because it was one of the few jobs that could exceed limitations that standard jobs faced. Unfortunately a lot of those tricks like DAD and Ventriloquy got nurfed and people aren't aware that they existed at one point.

[Mitruya]

Yes, I know of Ventriloquy and DAD, and thank you for your thoughts and comments.

[Moppet]

Out of curiosity, do all you PUPs know of and use ADD (Activate-Deploy-Deactivate) with your mage puppets? It's a really handy trick that SE thankfully never took away from us... possibly because taking it away would totally kill the utility of mage frames and screw us royally, and they know PUP is still at the bottom of the heap. I'm just wondering how many new PUPs are aware of it.

Yep, I'm aware of it. I still use it in special cases or to refresh MP when needed. Most of the content now includes a heavy amount of AoEs though, so it's considerably less useful.

I would kill for an AI change or JA that made mage autos run -away- from the target to it's maximum casting range. >.<

[Balloon]

Yep, I'm aware of it. I still use it in special cases or to refresh MP when needed. Most of the content now includes a heavy amount of AoEs though, so it's considerably less useful.

I would kill for an AI change or JA that made mage autos run -away- from the target to it's maximum casting range. >.<

I've always liked the idea of giving automatons a stance that means they're engaged to you, rather than a monster, faster recast times for cures, enhancing magic and forcing them to stand 20" away from you, and not 19" away from the target, at all times.

For the RDM frame, this would stop it doing crappy nukes.

[Shinron-PUP]

I've always liked the idea of giving automatons a stance that means they're engaged to you

Do you mean allowing a Automaton to be engaged outside of battle? I tried to suggest this a long time ago in the puppetmaster forums as a means of allowing our pets to buff us outside of battle. It seems sort of illogical to have access to protect, shell, haste, and stoneskin, but not be able to put it on until you're in the middle of fighting. Either a job ability that makes our pets use buffs outside of battle or allowing them to naturally use buffs outside of battle similar to adventuring fellows would be nice.

forcing them to stand 20" away from you, and not 19" away from the target, at all times.

I would really like to see the development team allow our mage frames and Ranger pet to be engaged farther away from enemies. Right now it's difficult to engage our pets outside of AoE range especially because they keep extending the radius of AoEs of certain enemies which can be disruptive when you're trying to use DAD (deactive-Activate-Deactivate). Although it might seem weird, extending deploy and casting range for automatons to a distance like 25~30 yalms away I think would be fair especially because it's harder for us to constantly re-position our pets like normal players can to avoid staying out of AoE range. This would also eliminate the struggle between what range of deploy your pet will run in to fight and what range of deploy your pet will stand still.