Will the recent Delve changes also apply to the new Delve II?

[Demonjustin]

Credibility is usually lost when claiming to be good, especially when you use the word "best", at something, rather than gained.

I certainly don't have a dog in the fight nor am I calling you good or bad, I was just pointing out the humor value of the statement, even, perhaps especially, if true.

I get your point, and you're right. I just hate when people belittle opinions in cases like these as though everyone who supports something must innately be on the same level. So far as the word best goes by itself, I use it sparingly because of that, and am always sure to say 'one of the best' rather than 'the best' because I am neither egotistical enough to think I am best, nor do I think it would make my argument stronger and could probably end up even weakening it. When it comes to credibility overall though, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation it seems, either say nothing and get treated a noob with a noob's perspective or sing your own praises and as a result be treated as though you're simply talking out your ass.

[Draylo]

I don't understand how you would need to beat Delve w/o 119 gear? You realize how easy 119 gear is to get? The newest update just put EASY outside delve Nms that you can get amazing weapons from. Prior to that, you could have gotten ROE weapons which are 117 and then reforged AF that is 119. Stop sucking and figure this game out, it isn't hard. Gil falls from trees these days.

[Demonjustin]

I don't understand how you would need to beat Delve w/o 119 gear? You realize how easy 119 gear is to get? The newest update just put EASY outside delve Nms that you can get amazing weapons from. Prior to that, you could have gotten ROE weapons which are 117 and then reforged AF that is 119. Stop sucking and figure this game out, it isn't hard. Gil falls from trees these days.

Congratulations on figuring out exactly why I said non-119 gear whilst excluding Reforged gear! I know perfectly fine how easy Sparks gear is to obtain, I also know how easy it is to obtain Reforged gear, my point of setting that restriction is most 119 gear is treated as though you must have a support job or 119 gear to do the content. I haven't really seen any Eminent DDs doing 119 content ranging from the new Skirmish to the new Delve NMs, AAs, DM, or the other 2 MPNMs. RF is excluded on the fact that it is easily obtained by some gil, quests, and RoE, nothing else level 119 is really obtainable without doing 119 content, and since getting into 119 content without having 119 gear can be difficult, it should be excluded from the example of just how easy Delve is.

You want to point out how easy Delve is with 6 people who need win? Go do win with non-119 characters, hell do it with characters who have never beaten Delve at all, at least then you can say Delve wins aren't required, but you won't do it, neither will he, and that's why your argument fails. You can't say it's easy to do and at the same time not do it yourself. Delve without 119 gear was possible when you had 18 people at your finger tips all who wanted to do the content and most of who needed win because you could get the exact setup you needed, you could lower a mob's EVA to realistic levels, in 6 man you can't do that. This topic originated with the idea of how 6 man Delve is to hard if I recall, because with 6 people the only people who stand a chance are those who have the gear already, you want to have ground to stand on in the debate then show some proof!

[Draylo]

You can become a 119 DD through other content so you can 6 man it, I don't see your point? Are you implying its hard to get into Skirmish 3 or the new Delve Nms that people take an alliance to?

[MarkovChain]

The new delve is disappointing. I played 15 minutes yesterday (and this week) and got 2 of the 4 pieces I wanted. Then threw money on airlixrs +2 and capped them... SE failed when they decided to keep the same plasm in the new version. People are necessarily capping gear quickly except maybe newbs, as they already have plasm to buy stuff on NPC, and the AH is full of airlixirs +2. As a consequence, most people stick to farming a couple of KI and then they are done. This also mean that the new-bosses will not be farmed (drops seem to suck anyway) because at least with tojil & v1, boss runs were a way to farm plasm.

[Demonjustin]

You can become a 119 DD through other content so you can 6 man it, I don't see your point? Are you implying its hard to get into Skirmish 3 or the new Delve Nms that people take an alliance to?

Care to explain how you would expect a player unable to get wins to obtain 150k Plasm? As for Skirmish, yes, I think people with only 117 weapons have a hard time getting into it because 119 has become the norm the way it has and on top of that the KI has such a pathetic drop rate due to the content being flawed that if a player does do Skirmish they are very likely to walk away without a KI for quite some time.

[saevel]

Seeing as I've been doing 6 man Delve runs to get people KI wins, it's f*cking hard as hell to win when half the people haven't beaten it already and aren't geared up. There is nothing that's going to make up the difference between a RoE 117 H2H and Oat's, nor the Polearm / GKT / Swords / ect. Now hopefully some have a 119 RME which can be acquired without any serious work if they already had them at 99. Can't even expect R15 delve gear in general as people stopped doing plasm farming runs, they only want to do 5+1 clears for the plasm which kinda puts people in a catch 22 situation.

Basically people need to get in a linkshell that's willing to organize 18 man runs to get everyone KI's and farm a ton of plasm for everyone to use for gear upgrades. Of course you run into the problem of all the good BRDs, COR's, WHM's and SCH's running away and joining already pimped six man groups leaving the non-pimped to gear up those jobs, learn them and eventually run off also.

[saevel]

Care to explain how you would expect a player unable to get wins to obtain 150k Plasm? As for Skirmish, yes, I think people with only 117 weapons have a hard time getting into it because 119 has become the norm the way it has and on top of that the KI has such a pathetic drop rate due to the content being flawed that if a player does do Skirmish they are very likely to walk away without a KI for quite some time.

Skirmish III can be done with 117 melee's, just need a decent support line and people not being retarded. The info's out there for them to fight the NM's pretty easily and the gear level is really low. Of course plasm farming is still a PITA, SE really needs to add some secondary method to farm up just plasm in small groups, maybe a second set of fractures that don't have any NM's in them.

[Draylo]

You can easily kill 5 nms in fracture with 117~119(skirm 3 gear) and get 10k plasm per run. It takes 15~20m to kill all 5 nm and then you can exit and reenter to farm plasm.

[saevel]

You can easily kill 5 nms in fracture with 117~119(skirm 3 gear) and get 10k plasm per run. It takes 15~20m to kill all 5 nm and then you can exit and reenter to farm plasm.

Yep and yet very few groups actively do this, which is the point I was making. Also 10K plasm per run isn't sh!t when you need to spend 300K just for the three airlixers +2 to upgrade a single piece of 113 gear. And lets not get into the prices for the newer stuff.

And even then, assuming everyone does that and now has a pair of 117 H2H, they still aren't going to be killing Tojil without a 4 song BRD who has long defected. In every successful low man group I notice two things in common, first being that they are experienced and well geared, second being the presence of a 3~4 song BRD. Those have become a rare commodity and generally have a princess like mentality since they can get instantly accepted into nearly any group on a given server.